Pickup replacement recommendations please

[Jack_TriPpEr]

I am looking for recommendations for replacement pickups for my Les Paul style Ibanez ART 300 (mahogany body and neck, singlecut, 24.75" scale, stop tail.).

I actually liked the stock (active) bridge pickup's sound for dirty tones, but that pickup and also the stock neck, are bith too hot when switching over to clean tones.

I am looking for recommendations for *PASSIVE* neck and bridge humbucker pickups. I want a bridge pup that excels at Metallica/Pantera type metal riffing, and also will play nice with a neck humbucker to produce great clean tones when the neck and bridge pickups are run in combination with each other (parallel). For the neck pickup, it needs to excel at working with the bridge for good clean tones. It should also have a good clean sound when split (and run in parallel with a split coil from the bridge). 80% of the time i play in standard tuning, the other 20% of the time i tune down as far as all strings down 1.5 steps at the most.

I have already tried the following pickups that did not fit the bill:
[Edit]: i later recalled some additiinal observations about these pickups that were worth adding here:
- EMG 81/85/60 (too hot for decent clean tones; it also would occasionally clip the signal; 81 had too much sizzle for my tastes when gain was applied; i actually prefered the 85 in the bridge for distortion tones; the 60 was too underpowered and dark.
- EMG 81X/85X/60X (each of these resolved the signal-clipping and too-compressd/lack of headroom problems of their respective predecessor, but i did not like them tone-wise in the same ways that i did not like their predecessor, again, i preferred the 85X in the bridge for distrotion tones over the 81X; also, i thought the SD Blackouts sounded better than these because of even less compression).
- SD Blackouts (too hot for decent clean tones; again, i preferred the neck pickup in the bridge position for distortion tones over the official brdge pickup
- Dimarzio Super Distortion in the bridge : the lows and girth were "too much" for me; too beefy; i dialed in a sound that was workable but still not ideal (coils in parallel into a 300K volume pot). The highs were a little too piercing for me, i assume that is due its ceramic nature and i seem to prefer the rounded hi's of an A5 mag.
- Dimarzio PAF Pro in the bridge: this one was closest to what i wanted tone-wise for Low E and A string based metal riffing. Note that it is an A5 magnet. But its mids based focus/voicing was a little too bright/shrill when playing metal distortion notes/riffs on the D string and higher gauge strings. Also, i noticed it was difficult to routinely get strong sounding pinch harmonics, whereas i normally don't have a problem doing that. Clean tone wise in the bridge, the PAF Pro's
mids EQ focus made the overall tone seem unnatural and thin for cleans. When i tried this pickup previously in the neck position on this guitar, the clean tones sounded much better, so it is a definite candidate for the neck slot.

Edit: forgot to mention earlier my experience with the following other pickups in this guitar:
- EMG HET SET: Too hot , and the EQ focus seemed to have too much mids presence for my tastes
- EMG Glen Tipton set: the mids focus of the EQ was even more extreme than the Het Set.

Thanks

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Pickup replacement recommendations please

Your next stop should be a Dimebucker for the bridge, matched to either a Screamin' Demon in the neck or a Sentient (Screamin' Demon has more output, but really sings in the neck spot and does cleans well)

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Pickup replacement recommendations please

Just to be clear, the Dimebucker is tight like an EMG 81 and does Pantera/Metallica riffing perfectly. It's Duncan's copy of the original Bill Lawrence L500XL and it sounds like the real deal. Harmonics are excellent and plenty strong (great example: Pantera!). The top end is bright, but not thin. The mids are very clear and uncongested, but do not feel overly scooped at all. The overall voicing is very musical and it stays surprisingly clean for such a hot pickup.

The Screamin' Demon is one of my favorite bridge pickups for a medium-output, biting rock tone, but it can get a bit thin like the PAF Pro. However, in the neck, it's a sweet, sweet thing with just the right amount of attitude when you dig in! Harmonics are effortless and it has enough output to handle your split/parallel options.

I imagine the combined sound of those two pickups would be epic!

I should also mention that the PAF Pro makes a very good neck pickup, as well, and was quite popular that way for a looooooong time!

 

[EDX]

Re: Pickup replacement recommendations please

another vote to the dimebucker and a suggestion to put a pearly gates bridge on the neck slot, that way it will balance just the same as the dimebag set (dimebucker + 59 Bridge) but with extra texas spice, cuz why not?

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Pickup replacement recommendations please

Just to be clear, the Dimebucker is tight like an EMG 81 and does Pantera/Metallica riffing perfectly. It's Duncan's copy of the original Bill Lawrence L500XL and it sounds like the real deal. Harmonics are excellent and plenty strong (great example: Pantera!). The top end is bright, but not thin. The mids are very clear and uncongested, but do not feel overly scooped at all. The overall voicing is very musical and it stays surprisingly clean for such a hot pickup.

The Screamin' Demon is one of my favorite bridge pickups for a medium-output, biting rock tone, but it can get a bit thin like the PAF Pro. However, in the neck, it's a sweet, sweet thing with just the right amount of attitude when you dig in! Harmonics are effortless and it has enough output to handle your split/parallel options.

I imagine the combined sound of those two pickups would be epic!

I should also mention that the PAF Pro makes a very good neck pickup, as well, and was quite popular that way for a looooooong time!

Thanks much. I did just update my original post with some (i think substantial) prior observations about priir pickups that i fogot to mention earlier.

Would you mind reading through and let me know if the Dimebucker recommendationis not effected? I am a little worried it might not be scooped enough, and maybe too hot, for my tastes (?)

From the prior "tightness" post replies, i listened to demos of the black winter , titan, Mark Morton, and Norton, and they seemed appealing as possible bridge pup candidates. I happened to run across a demo for the EVH Frankenstein pup that i didnt even know existed, and that also seemed intriguing.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Pickup replacement recommendations please

another vote to the dimebucker and a suggestion to put a pearly gates bridge on the neck slot, that way it will balance just the same as the dimebag set (dimebucker + 59 Bridge) but with extra texas spice, cuz why not?

Thanks much! A Pearly Gates bridge wouldn't be too hot for super clean tones in the neck slot? My primary need out of a neck pup is for really clean clean tones when combined with the bridge.

 

[EDX]

Re: Pickup replacement recommendations please

nah, the PGb is lower output than the 59b that normally pairs with the dimebucker as means to better match volume as the dimebucker severy overpowers vintage style neck pickups, the pearly gates gives extra spice to the tone as it's rough and biting in comparison to the smoother 59 so it does a better character match if you want.

about the dimebucker its output is truly bestial, back when they measured the mV outpu of duncan pickups the dimebucker was shy of the active pickups, the tone ain't truly so scooped, it also has more high end than any other high output passive which means that you can actually ride the vol pot in positions other than 0 and 10 without sounding muddy or muffled and no treble bleed needed

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Pickup replacement recommendations please

Pearly Gates bridge in the neck would be totally safe, but fairly warm. Like EDX said, Dimebag's own combo was a 59 Bridge paired with the Dimebucker (L500XL)

The Screamin' Demon is even higher output (slightly) than either of those and makes a killer neck pickup, as well. The PAF Pro is very close to the Screamin' Demon in output and is also a renowned neck pickup, popular for many years. Same thing with DiMarzio's FRED, which started out as a more middy PAF Pro and became a super popular neck model.

It's not until you get into pickups like the Evo Neck and SH-6n (Distortion Neck, previously the Seymourizer Bridge model in the '80s) that I'd be at all concerned with output for cleans, especially next to/combined with a Dimebucker. Even then, you'd be surprised how "hot" a neck pickup can get and still deliver reasonable cleans. Here's an example of the Evo vs the PAF Pro in the neck. Notice the EMG-like presence/volume of each string relative to each other in the Evo Neck compared to the more dynamic and "organic" feel of the PAF Pro in the same position:

The Screamin' Demon in the neck has a similar feel and response to the PAF Pro, but its own voicing. The slight scoop of the Demon works really well for clarity in that spot. You can dig in hard for some natural breakup or play it normally for a sweet and smooth sound that isn't too muddled.

When someone wants "an EMG but passive", I usually toss the original Evo set at them. The EMG Tipton is a midrange-enhanced 81...more growl, less bite. Similarly, the Het Set is a modified 81/60 set, but with more 3D sounding mids and slightly reduced presence. Personally, I prefer the Het set over the Tipton for sheer character.

After reading your updates, I'd still suggest the Dimebucker. It IS the Pantera sound and handles Metallica wonderfully. In fact, those were probably my 2 favorite styles to play on that pickup when I was using it! But it still cleans up great. Better than most "high output" designs, honestly.

 

[bloughlin16]

Re: Pickup replacement recommendations please

+1 for the Dimebucker/PGn suggestion. I think you'd find that some of the other options you tossed out, particularly the Titan, would be a little too mid-forward for your liking.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Pickup replacement recommendations please

Pearly Gates bridge in the neck would be totally safe, but fairly warm. Like EDX said, Dimebag's own combo was a 59 Bridge paired with the Dimebucker (L500XL)

The Screamin' Demon is even higher output (slightly) than either of those and makes a killer neck pickup, as well. The PAF Pro is very close to the Screamin' Demon in output and is also a renowned neck pickup, popular for many years. Same thing with DiMarzio's FRED, which started out as a more middy PAF Pro and became a super popular neck model.

It's not until you get into pickups like the Evo Neck and SH-6n (Distortion Neck, previously the Seymourizer Bridge model in the '80s) that I'd be at all concerned with output for cleans, especially next to/combined with a Dimebucker. Even then, you'd be surprised how "hot" a neck pickup can get and still deliver reasonable cleans. Here's an example of the Evo vs the PAF Pro in the neck. Notice the EMG-like presence/volume of each string relative to each other in the Evo Neck compared to the more dynamic and "organic" feel of the PAF Pro in the same position:

The Screamin' Demon in the neck has a similar feel and response to the PAF Pro, but its own voicing. The slight scoop of the Demon works really well for clarity in that spot. You can dig in hard for some natural breakup or play it normally for a sweet and smooth sound that isn't too muddled.

When someone wants "an EMG but passive", I usually toss the original Evo set at them. The EMG Tipton is a midrange-enhanced 81...more growl, less bite. Similarly, the Het Set is a modified 81/60 set, but with more 3D sounding mids and slightly reduced presence. Personally, I prefer the Het set over the Tipton for sheer character.

After reading your updates, I'd still suggest the Dimebucker. It IS the Pantera sound and handles Metallica wonderfully. In fact, those were probably my 2 favorite styles to play on that pickup when I was using it! But it still cleans up great. Better than most "high output" designs, honestly.

Great info, thank you!

I listened to the video. To my ears, there is some distortion breakup present in the clean sound demonstrations of both pickups. That is a concern for me. I'd like zero breakup. However, since that breakup is present in the demo of both pickups , it may be due to more of the settings of the amp and/or setup of the pickup heights , than a reflection on the pickups' clean tone capabilities. In fact, i was able to achieve zero breakup in the clean tones when i tried the PAF Pro in the neck slot of my guitar recently, so i know that pickup is ij fact capable.

When i used the Pantera description, it was more about the style of music i want to play in this guitar, not so much Dimebag's tone. Tonewise, I prefer the more scooped aspect of what Metallica/Hetfield achieves than Dime's more open/twangy tone in comparison. That doesn't mean i am ruling out the Dimebucker, but the above hopefully explains a little better about the hesitation about the Dimebucke i expressed earlier.

Regardless, great insights and recommendations provided so far. I appreciate it a lot.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Pickup replacement recommendations please

Whether you're talking about the old-school Invaders, the 81/60 or the Het set, Metallica's sound has always been less scooped than Dimebag's from a pickup perspective! Heck, Metallica has even used notoriously middy amps for most of their career! Their sound is heavy, full of mids.

I get the "twangy" thing with Dime. Some "twang" is inherent to the pickup, the Dimebucker is definitely bright and "open" sounding like its L500XL brother. But, that also gives it clarity when driven.

Alternatively, the Black Winter is a decent EMG substitute and sounds killer when split. Hopefully this quote keeps the link to one of the only examples I can find (not mine):

Just for the hell of it. This is BW split. Yes, there is chorus. Yes, there is delay. But it's my clean sound as is, with no post prosessing.

View attachment 51170

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Pickup replacement recommendations please

By the way, have you considered staying active? Fishman has some products that would probably cover everything you're looking for!

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Pickup replacement recommendations please

By the way, have you considered staying active? Fishman has some products that would probably cover everything you're looking for!

If i stayed active, i would want to keep the stock bridge pickup because i was very happy with the distortion tones i got from it. so in that scenario i would just need a recommendation for an active neck pickup that excels at clean tones.

The problem with pursuing active is that the stock active bridge pickup is an oddball design that uses AA batteries, so the new neck pickup would need its own 9V battery and need to fit somewhere in the control cavity. Not impossible, but i wanted to avoid that cramping issue.

The 2nd problem -more shortcoming - with a stay-active scenario, is that the stock active bridge pickup can't be split, and i was looking forward to getting a stratty clean sound from combining the inner coils of the two new passive pickups.

And, after already trying quite a few active neck pickup candidates and finding them either too hot for clean tones, or they clipped the signal, or i just didnt like the tone, i giess i got pessimistic about continuing down that road. But it is true that i have not tried any Fishmans yet... nor less hot EMG actives like their single-coils-in-humbucking-mounts.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Pickup replacement recommendations please

If you liked the PAF Pro in the bridge, then the Breed Neck (now discontinued) is an overwound, beefier, hotter version of that. You might wanna take a look at that to stick in the bridge position if you can find one.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Pickup replacement recommendations please

If you liked the PAF Pro in the bridge, then the Breed Neck (now discontinued) is an overwound, beefier, hotter version of that. You might wanna take a look at that to stick in the bridge position if you can find one.

Good to hear, thanks much!

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Pickup replacement recommendations please

Whether you're talking about the old-school Invaders, the 81/60 or the Het set, Metallica's sound has always been less scooped than Dimebag's from a pickup perspective! Heck, Metallica has even used notoriously middy amps for most of their career! Their sound is heavy, full of mids.

I get the "twangy" thing with Dime. Some "twang" is inherent to the pickup, the Dimebucker is definitely bright and "open" sounding like its L500XL brother. But, that also gives it clarity when driven.

Alternatively, the Black Winter is a decent EMG substitute and sounds killer when split. Hopefully this quote keeps the link to one of the only examples I can find (not mine):

Agreed, the Black Winter did sound very clean in that demo - thanks.

I just listened to this killer demo of the Dimebucker and i am thinking i will give that a try as my next move.

Will the Dimebucker play nice when split and combo'd with a split (Demon or 59b or PG) for clean tones?

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Pickup replacement recommendations please

If you liked the PAF Pro in the bridge, then the Breed Neck (now discontinued) is an overwound, beefier, hotter version of that. You might wanna take a look at that to stick in the bridge position if you can find one.

The Breed neck does indeed make an excellent bridge pickup. It's fat & singing, and just right in terms of output to balance with a vintage-to-medium-output neck humbucker. It does have that slightly mid-forward tonality that most DiMarzios seem to share. Maybe not as much as some, but there's a certain vocal quality there. Works great in a Les Paul; likely to be a bit more pronounced in an all-mahog guitar.

OP, you might even consider a pair of (Wilde) L500s - there are several versions with lower output than the XL; one of those could be very good for super cleans at the neck. Many regard these as the passives that come closest to actives, because of their wide and even frequency response. You can even call and talk with Becky personally if you have questions about which would suit you best.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Pickup replacement recommendations please

If you liked the PAF Pro in the bridge, then the Breed Neck (now discontinued) is an overwound, beefier, hotter version of that. You might wanna take a look at that to stick in the bridge position if you can find one.

The Breed neck does indeed make an excellent bridge pickup. It's fat & singing, and just right in terms of output to balance with a vintage-to-medium-output neck humbucker. It does have that slightly mid-forward tonality that most DiMarzios seem to share. Maybe not as much as some, but there's a certain vocal quality there. Works great in a Les Paul; likely to be a bit more pronounced in an all-mahog guitar.

OP, you might even consider a pair of (Wilde) L500s - there are several versions with lower output than the XL; one of those could be very good for super cleans at the neck. Many regard these as the passives that come closest to actives, because of their wide and even frequency response. You can even call and talk with Becky personally if you have questions about which would suit you best.

New development: i had forgotten that that PAF Pro was still eligible for the 30 Day Exchange policy, so i need to first explore the Dimarzio candidates as my next move.

I just called Dimarzio and Eric confirmed that The Breed Neck is a good candidate for what i am looking for, and they still have some in stock. So i just arranged to return my PAF Pro for that.

In a week or two when i get that Breed in hand and installed, i will report back my findings.

Thanks again everyone. Until later...

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Pickup replacement recommendations please

Glad it's working out. I really like the PAF Pro in the bridge too, except I sometimes find it a bit thin. Would love to hear how the Breed Neck does.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Pickup replacement recommendations please

Glad it's working out. I really like the PAF Pro in the bridge too, except I sometimes find it a bit thin. Would love to hear how the Breed Neck does.

Which of the previous recommendations for a neck pickup, will work well with The Breed in the bridge for great clean tones? If none, what pickup(s) will?