Pickup that breaths in Les Paul and beats the Burstbucker?

[papersoul]

Hi guys,

I have been through quite a few pickups in my LP Standard and always end up going to hot pickups in the 16-17k range but always realize they hit the amp a lot harder than I like and tend to sound hard and dense in the mids. I like this for a little while but always end up missing the vintage qualities of more open and lower output pickups.

My Burstbucker Pros have more of that vintage flavor and seem to have enough mids but not dense. Now, the Burstbucker Pro bridge needs a bit more output and punch for my tastes. I decide to order a nickel covered set C-5/59. I had the C-5 in this LP about three years ago and remember liking it and getting compliments on it at gigs. I remember fearing that it may not cut due to the lower mids but I didn't seem to have issues. However, I found it warmer with a 300k bridge volume for sure.

Have any of you tried the overwound C-5 at about 15.2k and is it worth the extra money? I re-installed the PRS Dragon IIs into my PRS and they seem to fit that guitar but it has a good chunk of mids due to those pickups. An LP is already fat and midrange heavy and that is the reason I am going to try the C-5 again in this LP.

The other guitarist in our band plays a Duncan Invaded in a Schecter. He dials in lots of bass but gets lost in the mix and his solos sound thin.

This solos is a fear with the C-5 but I find a 300k volume fattens it up.

Any thoughts on this guys???

Thanks as always!

 

[flipside]

Re: Pickup that breaths in Les Paul and beats the Burstbucker?

I'm in the same boat as you, and i always find myself going back to the JB. One note though, the less resistance you have in your volume pot the brighter the pup is going to sound. Consiquently the more resistance you have the darker it will sound.

 

[papersoul]

Re: Pickup that breaths in Les Paul and beats the Burstbucker?

I'm in the same boat as you, and i always find myself going back to the JB. One note though, the less resistance you have in your volume pot the brighter the pup is going to sound. Consiquently the more resistance you have the darker it will sound.

Yes, that is exactly why I think I'll go with the C-5 and a 300k volume pot. I am afriad to go to the 300k tone as well. Most guys leave the LP stock with the 300k volume. However, I like both neck pots at 500k for cleaner neck tones. My LP Standard sounds better with a 300k volume pot in the bridge....more resistance.

I did install 500k CTS pots but I want to change the bridge volume to 300k.

So, you ordered a JB? The BBQ is a killer LP pickup. That is going in my Classic.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Pickup that breaths in Les Paul and beats the Burstbucker?

I like the Seth Lover a lot more, the more I use it. It does beatiful cleans, it excells as midgain, but surprisingly it makes super high gain extremely articulate and fat. I was just playing my two main pauls through the Bogner's red channel, and finding myself surprised that the Seth has such a good voice for rock and metal. As long as your amp has a good tone and a tight bottom, the Seth is a great toned pickup.

 

[papersoul]

Re: Pickup that breaths in Les Paul and beats the Burstbucker?

I like the Seth Lover a lot more, the more I use it. It does beatiful cleans, it excells as midgain, but surprisingly it makes super high gain extremely articulate and fat. I was just playing my two main pauls through the Bogner's red channel, and finding myself surprised that the Seth has such a good voice for rock and metal. As long as your amp has a good tone and a tight bottom, the Seth is a great toned pickup.

Gear, that is the Anniversary Seth, right? I would look at the regular Seth for me.....

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Pickup that breaths in Les Paul and beats the Burstbucker?

Gear, that is the Anniversary Seth, right? I would look at the regular Seth for me.....

Take a look at the Pearly Gates set as well. Like GJ said, if your amp is tight and gainy enough, it will do the job.

 

[papersoul]

Re: Pickup that breaths in Les Paul and beats the Burstbucker?

Then,

I have tried a lot of boutique pickups and keep coming back to the fact that you really can do just as well with Duncans, Dimarzios, and Rios. They are all good - but the prices?

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Pickup that breaths in Les Paul and beats the Burstbucker?

Paper-meister, I know exactly what you mean and I urge you to check this thread out.

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=43329&page=1&pp=20

It starts out innocently enough with me wondering and blathering on about the pros and cons of using a Distortion neck model (12.7k) as bridge pu for just this sort of idea -- then....

...DRUM ROLL....

...my custom boutique pickup arrives from a man named Jon.

I then proceed to review it. The gist of it is "hybrids" (high-output coil mated with low output coil), which are nothing new here in this forum (never talked about over at the LPF, strangely enough) and the special hybrid this guy made for me. In a nutshell, this new pickup sounds "complete" -- all other pickups, including the Burstbucker (which I still think is an underrated pickup), sound tonally lopsided by comparison. This baby has no peaks, no scoops. It's all there.

It sounds like you are looking for what I and many others were looking for, vintage with balls. I seriously think this man can help you...

 

[papersoul]

Re: Pickup that breaths in Les Paul and beats the Burstbucker?

Thanks dude...I posted this on the other thread.

This all sounds great. I personally am using a WCR Shredder set i my LP Standard that is like a thicker JB with great clarity. It really sounds great but almost too hot to my ears at times. It can have those hard qualities like the JB at times I tend to long for something a bit more open. Thus far….I still feel the best two pickups I have found are the Rio Grande BBQ (12.5) and the Duncan C-5 which doesn’t seem as hot as specs.

I really don’t have a need for the split function or any of that but I like pickups in the 10-12k range although I always thought the resistance numbers mean very little?

Anyway, I also found the Burstbuckers nice as you said in your other post but always felt I needed some more thickness and power which is what the C-5 kind of provides. The C-5 feels more powerful than the BB Pro but not too much. This is most likely due to different wire gauge, etc. The C-5 is medium to hot but sounds great clean and not hard in the mids but in the right guitar (Les Paul with a 300k volume pot) it sounds big, open, warm, and still cuts for leads with the right amp settings.

The Rio BBQ is almost perfect to me, not too hot, not too cold. Works better in some guitars.

Actually…some of the best I have used are the PRS Dragon IIs…nice clean to heavy at about 12k bridge and the neck is nice and clear! I wish Duncan made more in this range. But again numbers aren’t everything.

Have you tried WCR pickups. My favorite is the Shredder but I wish it wasn’t that hot! Ut is like 16.2 k.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Pickup that breaths in Les Paul and beats the Burstbucker?

The hotter and more overwound the pickup the more its going to compress when you play with an overdriven tone and it'll sound less breathy.

I use the Custom Custom in one guitar but for the most part I prefer vintage output pickups closer to the original alnico 2 50's Gibson paf design: Antiquity, Seth Lover, Pearly Gates, AIIPro...or the alnico 5 59.

Any hotter than about 9K or 9.5K and the tone gets midrange heavy and with an overdriven tone, fairly compressed...especially in an alnico 2 humbucker. When you get alot of compression and alot of mids the breathy quality starts to disappear.

Going with alnico 2 pickups that have mismatched coils (like the Antiquity or Pearly Gates) opens up the mids and gives a more open tone and a tone I think of as being more textured and "breathy".

So consider keeping the output at 9.5K or under if you want your tone to breath and learn to shape the tone more with your hands and playing technique rather than overdriving the daylights out of your amp with a real hot pickup...IF you're after a more breathy and open tone.

Your Burstbucker Pros are alnico 5 pickups, BTW, and to my ears alnico 5 humbuckers have less mids and more bass and treble. That opens up the mids a bit and gives them more of a breathy tone too.

You might like the Duncan 59B. If you have the albums FRESH CREAM and DISRALI GEARS you can hear the diff between Clapton playing a guitar with alnico 2 pafs (Fresh Cream) and Clapton playing a guitar with alnico 5 humbuckers like the 59 (Disrali Gears). Big diff!

Just my opinion! Lew

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Pickup that breaths in Les Paul and beats the Burstbucker?

The hotter and more overwound the pickup the more its going to compress when you play with an overdriven tone and it'll sound less breathy.

I use the Custom Custom in one guitar but for the most part I prefer vintage output pickups closer to the original alnico 2 50's Gibson paf design: Antiquity, Seth Lover, Pearly Gates, AIIPro...or the alnico 5 59.

Any hotter than about 9K or 9.5K and the tone gets midrange heavy and with an overdriven tone, fairly compressed...especially in an alnico 2 humbucker. When you get alot of compression and alot of mids the breathy quality starts to disappear.

Going with alnico 2 pickups that have mismatched coils (like the Antiquity or Pearly Gates) opens up the mids and gives a more open tone and a tone I think of as being more textured and "breathy".

So consider keeping the output at 9.5K or under if you want your tone to breath and learn to shape the tone more with your hands and playing technique rather than overdriving the daylights out of your amp with a real hot pickup...IF you're after a more breathy and open tone.

Your Burstbucker Pros are alnico 5 pickups, BTW, and to my ears alnico 5 humbuckers have less mids and more bass and treble. That opens up the mids a bit and gives them more of a breathy tone too.

You might like the Duncan 59B. If you have the albums FRESH CREAM and DISRALI GEARS you can hear the diff between Clapton playing a guitar with alnico 2 pafs (Fresh Cream) and Clapton playing a guitar with alnico 5 humbuckers like the 59 (Disrali Gears). Big diff!

Just my opinion! Lew

Great post as always Lew....None of us could expect anything less from you..Hope all is well buddy? :dance:

 

[Artie]

Re: Pickup that breaths in Les Paul and beats the Burstbucker?

One note though, the less resistance you have in your volume pot the brighter the pup is going to sound. Consiquently the more resistance you have the darker it will sound.

Actually, this is just the opposite. A smaller resistance constitutes a greater load, thus softer highs. A higher resistance pot will be brighter.

Thats why they recommend 250k's for singles and 500k's for humbuckers.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Pickup that breaths in Les Paul and beats the Burstbucker?

Actually, this is just the opposite. A smaller resistance constitutes a greater load, thus softer highs. A higher resistance pot will be brighter.

Thats why they recommend 250k's for singles and 500k's for humbuckers.

And another great post from another one of my absolute favorite people on the forums! Hello Artie.. :wink:

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Pickup that breaths in Les Paul and beats the Burstbucker?

Great post as always Lew....None of us could expect anything less from you..Hope all is well buddy? :dance:

Thanks John! And all is starting to be well again, and I'm returning to normal..."a whole new kind of normal" as a friend of mine told me a couple of weeks ago. I'm loving my new place up at 8800' above sea level near Rollins Pass and near the Continental Divide, although there's no internet access up there. Bruce keeps getting emails from my customers wanting to know why I'm not returning emails as quickly as I used to be able to but it's been good for me to spend less time online and only when I'm at work. Leaves more room in my head for other things and I've been playing alot more and writing songs.

Thanks for asking!

 

[papersoul]

Re: Pickup that breaths in Les Paul and beats the Burstbucker?

Glad to hear things are cool, Lew! I am jealous you are up in the rockies....very jealous!

Lew....what about the C-5? Doesn't that throw the whole higher output, greater mids and compression thing out the window? Or, is the C-5 just a special beast???

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Pickup that breaths in Les Paul and beats the Burstbucker?

Glad to hear things are cool, Lew! I am jealous you are up in the rockies....very jealous!

Lew....what about the C-5? Doesn't that throw the whole higher output, greater mids and compression thing out the window? Or, is the C-5 just a special beast???

Thanks! I know what'cha mean about the C5. I had one in my Hamer Sunburst for about a year. It's bright and deep (sort of like a "loud" 59B) but the overall tonal balance makes it seem to have less mids and less compression than I would have expected. Must be the wire, the way it's wound and/or the size of the magnet. In all honesty, it just didn't do it for me (something lacking in the mids...a certain "dry" quality) although there are players here who swear by it.

 

[Young Angus]

Re: Pickup that breaths in Les Paul and beats the Burstbucker?

I actually really started to like my BBpros in my les paul and because my amp can provide all the gain i need i didnt need to go stupid with high output pickups...and ive started liking more vintage output pickups a lot better because they just seem to retain more characted. Having said that i do think the bridge BBpro could do with a bit more testosterone so ive decided to get myself a set of Lindy Fralin PAF clones from Lew as soon as i can get the money. These are supposed to sound fantastic, still have that vintage characted, but have lots of balls!