Hi I'm curious if anyone knows how to make a high DC resistance pickup with only moderate output? if you look at the SD YJM fury, the bridge has a 25.65k DC and a 25.45k DC on the neck! but its got moderate output! HOW???? As far as I know, to get that high a DC the pickup needs to be over wound. but normally a pickup wound enough to hit that high a DC would be hotter then watching a strip show at a Caribbean volcano while eating raw chillies. So anyone know how its done? is it the wire gauge? maybe a special coating on the wire? any ideas?
Pickup winding
- Thread starter krulty
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Edgecrusher
New member
Re: Pickup winding
What Jeremy said is true also from the get go dont assume that DC resistance = output. Especially when talking about stacked single coils. Look at the BKP blackhawk its only 8.6k yet it has tons of output more than most 21k monsters you see.
What Jeremy said is true also from the get go dont assume that DC resistance = output. Especially when talking about stacked single coils. Look at the BKP blackhawk its only 8.6k yet it has tons of output more than most 21k monsters you see.
Re: Pickup winding
so it is the wire gauge. interesting. the main reason i want to know is so I can build my own pup. I want a tone like the YJM but in a traditional humbucker, I know it wont be the same, but a ball park will do me lol. not a strat fan and all my axes have 2 humbucker's. any more tips?
so it is the wire gauge. interesting. the main reason i want to know is so I can build my own pup. I want a tone like the YJM but in a traditional humbucker, I know it wont be the same, but a ball park will do me lol. not a strat fan and all my axes have 2 humbucker's. any more tips?
Edgecrusher
New member
Re: Pickup winding
My suggestion would be to read and not what you read on the net a good place to start would be the book that was put out by Jason Lollar. You can get it here http://www.lollarguitars.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LGP&Product_Code=WinderBook This is just somewhere to start. You need to understand its much more than just picking the right wire gauge and deciding on a resistance (hint most pickups are wound to a wind count not to a specific resistance) There are a few other books out there but they are more obscure to find Lollars is a good place to start though.
My suggestion would be to read and not what you read on the net a good place to start would be the book that was put out by Jason Lollar. You can get it here http://www.lollarguitars.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LGP&Product_Code=WinderBook This is just somewhere to start. You need to understand its much more than just picking the right wire gauge and deciding on a resistance (hint most pickups are wound to a wind count not to a specific resistance) There are a few other books out there but they are more obscure to find Lollars is a good place to start though.
Edgecrusher
New member
Re: Pickup winding
Considering what it will cost you to buy bobbins, polepieces, wire, baseplates, winding machine etc seems like 60 bucks would be a worth while investment just to know what to really do with all those pieces. I can guarantee you its the knowledge that sets great winders apart from the average DIY crowd.
Considering what it will cost you to buy bobbins, polepieces, wire, baseplates, winding machine etc seems like 60 bucks would be a worth while investment just to know what to really do with all those pieces. I can guarantee you its the knowledge that sets great winders apart from the average DIY crowd.
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Pickup winding
There isn't one. Why do you want high DCR and moderate output? Moderate output is moderate output regardless of DCR. What do you think increased DCR with the same output will get you?
The only reason narrower gauges of wire are used is to get more turns of wire (the real measure of the coil's contribution to output) in the same space, not to increase DCR. If you have two geometrically identical pickups each having 10,000 turns of wire, but one with 42 gauge and the other with 43 (narrower), in theory they should be just about the same output even though the 43 gauge will read about 20% higher DCR. In practice, however, the 43 gauge pickup -- even though it's DCR reads very significantly higher -- might sound a little thinner and weaker because the coil is slightly smaller and can't see as much of the string.
I'm generally a defender of the DCR spec's usefulness in the absence of turn counts (which no winder, including yours truly, will give you) in the face of the "DCR is meaningless!" mob. But it is definitely NOT the case that higher DCR automatically means higher output. Nor is there any magic in having the same output with higher DCR.
If you're going to wind, you can't focus on a particular spec you want a pickup to have because the number sounds cool. You need to focus on getting a particular sound regardless of specs and materials you end up having to use.
There isn't one. Why do you want high DCR and moderate output? Moderate output is moderate output regardless of DCR. What do you think increased DCR with the same output will get you?
The only reason narrower gauges of wire are used is to get more turns of wire (the real measure of the coil's contribution to output) in the same space, not to increase DCR. If you have two geometrically identical pickups each having 10,000 turns of wire, but one with 42 gauge and the other with 43 (narrower), in theory they should be just about the same output even though the 43 gauge will read about 20% higher DCR. In practice, however, the 43 gauge pickup -- even though it's DCR reads very significantly higher -- might sound a little thinner and weaker because the coil is slightly smaller and can't see as much of the string.
I'm generally a defender of the DCR spec's usefulness in the absence of turn counts (which no winder, including yours truly, will give you) in the face of the "DCR is meaningless!" mob. But it is definitely NOT the case that higher DCR automatically means higher output. Nor is there any magic in having the same output with higher DCR.
If you're going to wind, you can't focus on a particular spec you want a pickup to have because the number sounds cool. You need to focus on getting a particular sound regardless of specs and materials you end up having to use.
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copperheadroads
New member
Re: Pickup winding
I think this is tough project to take on as a beginner winder
25k stack pickup will need fine gauge wire (probably awg45) which is tough enough to wind without stretching or breaking by an experienced winder .
Save your self hundreds of dollars & wasted time & headaches & buy something similar & available or have something custom made
I think this is tough project to take on as a beginner winder
25k stack pickup will need fine gauge wire (probably awg45) which is tough enough to wind without stretching or breaking by an experienced winder .
Save your self hundreds of dollars & wasted time & headaches & buy something similar & available or have something custom made
CloneRanger
New member
Re: Pickup winding
Good advice! Magnet strength is what determines output; the theoretical gain in putting a huge number of turns in a pickup would be that you might use a soft magnetic field (weak mag), thereby causing minimal interference with the vibrating string.
Good advice! Magnet strength is what determines output; the theoretical gain in putting a huge number of turns in a pickup would be that you might use a soft magnetic field (weak mag), thereby causing minimal interference with the vibrating string.
Re: Pickup winding
If $60 is a tad too much, I found a $25 option on Stewmac as an alternative
From the reviews it sounds like it has the info you'd need, I'll be picking up a copy for myself, too
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Books,_plans/Electronics/Pickups,_Windings_and_Magnets.html
If $60 is a tad too much, I found a $25 option on Stewmac as an alternative
From the reviews it sounds like it has the info you'd need, I'll be picking up a copy for myself, too
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Books,_plans/Electronics/Pickups,_Windings_and_Magnets.html
Edgecrusher
New member
Re: Pickup winding
I have both books and the stewmac book is nice but spends more time on history and design and glosses over technical details. It gives you just enough that you can get started but doesnt go real in depth into understanding the reasons why and the actual process of winding.
I have both books and the stewmac book is nice but spends more time on history and design and glosses over technical details. It gives you just enough that you can get started but doesnt go real in depth into understanding the reasons why and the actual process of winding.
Re: Pickup winding
You're kidding! Right?
$60 to know HOW to do what you want to do and with the hundreds of dollars that you will be investing in winder, parts, wire, and other equipment....THIS is too much for you to even consider?!
From your original post it sounds like you know absolutely nothing about pup winding, but your not wanting to invest in the knowledge you NEED is baffling to me. If you truly don't have "$60 to spare", how are you going to afford everything else that you will need to start winding?
You're kidding! Right?
$60 to know HOW to do what you want to do and with the hundreds of dollars that you will be investing in winder, parts, wire, and other equipment....THIS is too much for you to even consider?!
From your original post it sounds like you know absolutely nothing about pup winding, but your not wanting to invest in the knowledge you NEED is baffling to me. If you truly don't have "$60 to spare", how are you going to afford everything else that you will need to start winding?
ItsaBass
New member
Re: Pickup winding
Are you basically saying that you want the tone you get from a lot of winds (lots of low end with heavily attenuated highs), however, you don't really want the pickup to hit the amp that hard?
A few things come to mind:
1. Use a high output pickup turned down.
2. Use a moderate output pickup, and use your tone controls to fatten the bottom and pull back the top end.
3. Use 43 gauge wire
4. Use A3 magnets
Honestly, I think that basic volume adjustments and/or e.q.ing will get you what you want.
Are you basically saying that you want the tone you get from a lot of winds (lots of low end with heavily attenuated highs), however, you don't really want the pickup to hit the amp that hard?
A few things come to mind:
1. Use a high output pickup turned down.
2. Use a moderate output pickup, and use your tone controls to fatten the bottom and pull back the top end.
3. Use 43 gauge wire
4. Use A3 magnets
Honestly, I think that basic volume adjustments and/or e.q.ing will get you what you want.
Re: Pickup winding
Found Lollars book in PDF!
http://main.sliberty.com/ftproot/ABF/References/Pickup Winding - Jason Lollar.pdf
Found Lollars book in PDF!
http://main.sliberty.com/ftproot/ABF/References/Pickup Winding - Jason Lollar.pdf