Pickup - wood combinations. Do they matter?

[Mincer]

The best way to figure this out is to experiment with a guitar. And then realize every guitar is different.

 

[ehdwuld]

I've never understood the argument that of the neck woods, the fretboard makes the most difference. It's the smallest part of the board in terms of mass and the strings never touch it. Could you explain it to me?

The striings are suspended along the length of the neck
the stiffness of the wood affects sustain
And color to some degree
I see neck woods as being more influential thatn body woods

 

[dave74]

I almost always hear more of a fundamental "thump" in the lows from maple and maple/walnut necks compared to full mahogany necks.
Mahogany necks almost always produce a "softer" more "breathing" low-end.

Board material seems to change the EQ-curve just a bit IME. Ebony is crisper and more scooped, rosewood is in the middle and maple is the warmest and the most midrange dominant.

 

[Wound_Up]

Now, hear me out. I'm not going into the tonewood debate here. I do think wood makes a difference, but that's not the point here.

I often read people request recommendations and say "it's going into an x-wood guitar". Does it matter?

I know manufacturers use tens of different types of Mahogany. Even if using the same species, wood differes from piece to piece. I've had Mahogany guitars be brighter than my current Alder Strat. I'm sure you've all experienced that too.

I think a more important factor (IMO) is pickup placement on the top of the guitar. Bridge pickups mounted closer to the bridge itself are brighter/thinner. 24 fret guitars that move the neck pickup's position closer to the bridge lose a bit of that neck pickup throatiness/boominess/warmth too.

But most importantly, what's most important is what tone you're looking to get out of your guitar. I would consider it unthinkable to have an (just to name an example) Invader on a really dark guitar. But some people like that tone. Plenty of examples of people making it work it that way. Same goes for, say, a Dimebucker in the bridge position of a really thin and wiry guitar. I mean, after all, Fenders are stereotypically bright both acoustically and electronically with the single coil pickups.

At the same time, my second point is I have never tried (nor do I think I'll ever) a guitar so dark, bassy, and dull to make a Dimebucker sound balanced when amplified. Nor a guitar so thin and wiry to make me feel an Invader is balanced. Not to say the acoustic sound of the guitar does not make a difference, but does it make enough of a difference to make you love a pickup you hated?

Do you guys not agree? Let's discuss.

On the point about mahogany guitars that are unexpectedly brighter than others made of xxxxx woods. One thing I've never understood with that is that people never say mahogany is a bright sounding wood until they talk about black Les Paul Customs that are full mahogany with no maple cap. Everybody always talks about how bright those are and yet they're solid mahogany. So how is that?


How is it that mahogany isn't considered to make a bright sounding guitar until we talk about those? No one will ever convince me that the ebony fretboard that makes up 5% of the total wood in a Les Paul is overpowering the entire body and all of the mahogany that makes it up and that's the reason it's brighter.

IMO, people just repeat what they read and hear as if it's gospel when they have nothing to support it except that it's been repeated as fact for 30+ years.

I don't know what point I was attempting to make now lol. I seem to have forgotten. :lmao:

 

[Mincer]

Also, blanket statements don't work here.

 

[marcello252]

Strictly in my own experience , the things that sonically (not involving playability) really count are in this order:

- pickups and their position
- pots and caps value
- type and material of the bridge
- strings
- guitar scale
- neck + fretboard wood combo
- body wood

my 2 cents

 

[GuitarDoc]

On the point about mahogany guitars that are unexpectedly brighter than others made of xxxxx woods. One thing I've never understood with that is that people never say mahogany is a bright sounding wood until they talk about black Les Paul Customs that are full mahogany with no maple cap. Everybody always talks about how bright those are and yet they're solid mahogany. So how is that?


How is it that mahogany isn't considered to make a bright sounding guitar until we talk about those? No one will ever convince me that the ebony fretboard that makes up 5% of the total wood in a Les Paul is overpowering the entire body and all of the mahogany that makes it up and that's the reason it's brighter.

You're almost contradicting yourself.
What material is the fretboard on a LP Custom? Hint...it's one of the brightest woods used in guitars. Thus, making even a solid mahogany bodied guitar sound bright.

No one is trying to convince you of anything. You can believe what you want. I'm just telling you facts that have been derived from LOTS of experimentation and experience.
The maple cap on a mahogany mainly gives the tone a bit more clarity and snap, but the ebony fretboard gives it brightness (if that makes any sense).

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Honestly, all of the guitars with Ebony boards I've had have somewhat thin and brittle acoustically to varying degrees.

Granted, I've owned only mid-priced guitars with Ebony boards, two of which developed cracks even if I maitained them properly, and I didn't live in a particularly harsh environment back then.

I've had a Nick Catanese PRS SE, a Mike Mushok PRS SE, an LTD EC-1000, a Chapman Rob Scallon, and an Epiphone Les Paul Custom off the top of my head.

I've come to the conclusion a while back that I don't like Ebony boards. At least not on mid-priced guitars.

 

[DonP]

IME it's a balancing equation. Every element matters, the degree each matters is widely different, and if you are being exacting about a resulting tone you are after, then knowing the wood species as a start, and the specific guitar moreover, is useful in choosing pickups and wiring that will work with, or counteract, the guitar to get the result you want.

Agreed and also include the rig as well. I have guitars that sound like gawd through one amp and shit through another.

 

[dave74]

Honestly, all of the guitars with Ebony boards I've had have somewhat thin and brittle acoustically to varying degrees.

Those are the guitars that work best with those big dark beef-horse models like the Invader, Warpig, D'aX, even the super3 sometimes.

 

[Clint 55]

I figure out what wood I like and then just use that. I don't think I have such and such wood so I need these pickups as a combination or vice versa.

 

[Chistopher]

Strictly in my own experience , the things that sonically (not involving playability) really count are in this order:

- pickups and their position
- pots and caps value
- type and material of the bridge
- strings
- guitar scale
- neck + fretboard wood combo
- body wood

my 2 cents

I would say picking location falls between the first two

 

[nienturi]

All that matters to me is whether the guitars neck or bridge position darker/warmer or brighter. I don't care about all the generalisations because all of them have a huge faults that matter. But for an existing guitar, that matters. You have a guitar so that you can try it and understand its character under your system (your equipment, you playing, your strings whatever...) then you can evaluate new pickups for it.

 

[ToneFiddler]

I would say picking location falls between the first two

and pick type/material, although that's not really part of the guitar

 

[ehdwuld]

When deciding if your guitar is darker or brighter
you have to account for what pickups are currently in it.
As they my be the dark/bright component that tips the scale.

Its all circular

Chicken or the egg

If you want your guitar to be darker or brighter
Easy enough to change pickups or strings
before changing necks and fretboard


Amp and speaker make a difference

Heck stop all the nonsense and just play the dang thang

 

[GuitarDoc]

Agree with Ehdwuld.
Just find the pups that sound good to you in your guitar and play the darn thing. Don't try to theorize it to death. If you get pups that sound pretty good but maybe a little too dark or too bright, try using your tone controls.

 

[RanchManSandy]

I changed the maple/rw neck on my Warmoth to a wenge/ebony one and acoustically it sounds, like, maybe10% darker. Plugged in? Completely indistinguishable, whether clean, hairy, or high gain. pegasus + sentient pickups. I now believe body makes a bigger difference than the neck, but the pickups are still the biggest factor until the signal hits the next circuit.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

It also depends on what you want.

What if you guitar is bright, but you like it because it's bright, and you want it to give you more of that? Like... you got a Tele. You want your Tele to sound like a Tele. You don't want your Tele to sound fat. You got your Les Paul for that, and no Tele is ever going to beat a Les Paul at that.

That's just an example, BTW. I'm sure there are Teles that sound fatter than Les Pauls. Like I said, my Strat right now is darker than my Les Paul acoustically.

No?

 

[GuitarDoc]

I changed the maple/rw neck on my Warmoth to a wenge/ebony one and acoustically it sounds, like, maybe10% darker. Plugged in? Completely indistinguishable, whether clean, hairy, or high gain. pegasus + sentient pickups. I now believe body makes a bigger difference than the neck, but the pickups are still the biggest factor until the signal hits the next circuit.

Could be that the tone of the pups is so overpowering that the small affect of the type of woods isn't enough to hear the difference (especially since you didn't do a controlled comparison).

 

[ehdwuld]

I changed the maple/rw neck on my Warmoth to a wenge/ebony one and acoustically it sounds, like, maybe10% darker. Plugged in? Completely indistinguishable, whether clean, hairy, or high gain. pegasus + sentient pickups. I now believe body makes a bigger difference than the neck, but the pickups are still the biggest factor until the signal hits the next circuit.

I agree
obviously the guitar is not an acoustic
and once it is plugged in the woods used make little to no difference

once you add gain and distortion
the pickups and strings make less difference

add chimey VOX amp or Cranked Marshal or some other external factor
and none of those little things matter

tone chasing is an addiction

how the neck feels in the hand
how the guitar sits on a strap or on your leg
these are the most important things

oh and if its blue
gotta be blue

lets start a thread on tone rugs