Pickups and digital modelling amps...

Sly_D

New member
Modelling amp colours the sound so much that I sometimes have the impression that pikcups are less important with these amps.

My Vox amp sound absolutely great with the Agile stock PU, whereas those pikcups were only average with my Traynor tube amp.

Will a change of pikcup have a noticeable positive impact on the sound?

Can guys using modelling amp share their pikcup experience with me as far as tone is concerned? Is there pikcups that work better than others with digital amps?

Thanks in advance!
 
Re: Pickups and digital modelling amps...

I use my POD 2.0 as a preamp for everything I play, and I really do notice sound differences with pickups when I change or mod them. Now I wouldn't know if it'd mean even more difference with a proper tube amp. For that I'll have to wait until I can retube my Laney.
 
Re: Pickups and digital modelling amps...

Different pickups react to different amps in positive and negative ways, regardless of the internal workings of the amplifier.

Either way, the signal in is always the same with a certain guitar. The tone you either like or dislike is derivative of the amp's coloration of the tone. A digital amp doesn't necessarily color a tone any more or less than an all tube amplifier.
 
Re: Pickups and digital modelling amps...

Thanks guys... I think I'll just have to re-assess which pikcup I prefer with this amp. The 59 was my favorite with the Traynor, and I now wonder if it is with the Vox. I'll have to put it to the test.
 
Re: Pickups and digital modelling amps...

I also hear a difference with different pickups. The one thing is that you can tweak the amp modelers so much that you can taylor your sound to be very usable even if the pickups don't sound so good through an amp (since they can't be tweaked so much).
 
Re: Pickups and digital modelling amps...

Yeah, I guess I'll have to do some more tweaking with the amp. I'm a pretty bad tweaker, the presets sound noticeably better than anything I came up with for the moment. Thanks for the tip.
 
Re: Pickups and digital modelling amps...

I can tell a huge difference between pups with my J-Station. The modeling only colors the sound to the degree I tell it to. ;)

btw - The more distortion I dial in, the less difference there is between pups. "Clean" is where the definition is.
 
Re: Pickups and digital modelling amps...

Artie nailed the clean vs distortion part, just as is true with tubes-

With modeling there are so many variables to consider that to me this is kind of like the "does a flyign V sound good with a matchless" kind of question- Most of it depends on what you like and how you play.

For example, my old GP100 blackface does an extremely good job emulating the nuances of a blackface- If a pup sounds good on a good blackface, it will behave almost exactly the same with this model-

On the other hand, I've got a slide plug in setting for recording that is just unbelievable for that guitar, those pups, etc. I've tweaked it so many times that I have absolutly no idea what model, preamp setting or even the signal chain (it's ridiculous). It wouldn't make any sense to use this with any other guitar in the room, and it's nothing about it is 'normal'.

All of this is to say that, yes, with modeling you can build sounds that are just otherwise not possible and to that degree it reduces the need for pup flexibility-

On the other hand, all of my pups are chosen with tubes and standard models where the differences are very obvious, because as much as I like specific sounds for specific tracks, there are tones that I've had all my life and that's my startign point-

not sure if this makes sense, but one other heads up-
Be careful not to judge guitars, pups, amps, etc based on heavily modified models- We had a new guitarist who ranted against our monitoring system recently, until we pointed out that his models are unbelieveably midrange scooped- They wont sound good any place but his bedroom, but this wasn't his first thought:)
 
Re: Pickups and digital modelling amps...

Thanks guys. I'm so freakin bad with modellers... I'm used to just plug and play, which is not the case with the Vox amp. So basically, what you all say is that I must tweak the amp until it behaves like it should with a 59. I'll keep that in mind. I'll try not to loose patience with the modelling amp :smack:
 
Re: Pickups and digital modelling amps...

Sly-
Or go exactly the opposite and pick an amp that has modles that work well with the rest of your rig, and then don't modify it at all (ie change pups and wiring for differnt sounds)- Works well for many- Just treat it like a princeton that happens to get a lot of other stock sounds:)
 
Re: Pickups and digital modelling amps...

Yeah, maybe I should stop taking the modelling amp so differently than the other amps I've own...
 
Re: Pickups and digital modelling amps...

It can be a delima- As everyone does, I've developed ridiculously complex pathches that don't work well in the real world, and I've barely tweaked others and have a sound for life- It's a lot like production, you can't tell if something works until you try it, but if you experiment all of the time you will never get anything accomplished-

With that said, I think there is a middle of the road that works rather well for me.
1. When I get a new modelign envirornment, the first thing I establish are a few core "base tones" good old every day tones that I can easily compare to others- The blackface I refered to is one of those and, usually you can find 99% of this in a preset. I usually set up a clean big fender, a lighlty crunched fender, a middle of the road driven Marshal, and a ridiculously overdriven something depending on the avaiable models.

2. I thin go back to these core sounds and assign affects and have used a midi footboard for 10 years, so I go ahead and assign the pedals- Now I have a basic fender crunch chorus sound as well as a marshal compressed, etc.

3. I forgot to tell you that I do this monitoring thoguth a very wide band, uncolored system- Now I use the studio, but in the old days I even used PA systems that had been well adopted to a room.

4. #3 is crucial, as you dont want to get too far down the road and say, this sounds terrible anywhere but in my bedroom. The farther you get away from the preset the better the chance you will be off.

5. And considering the above tends to take about a weekend, I make sure these core sounds are backed up and in banks that are easily accessible, and then I just use them for the next month or so- I may find that in one perormance envirnent that the basic patch is too thin, or has too much chorus, so I will save the 'local' equivielent of that patch next to the core patch-

6. After a month or so, I'll go back and see what I have. Often I will realize that I had saved 4 copies of core patch 1 with a 3db boost at 1200 and recognise that I can just adopt this edit in the core patch-

Or I will realize that a core patch simply isn't workign and go back and look for another version-

This works really well- I got a cheap yamaha digi stopmp a couple of years back for models and affects on accosutic, but I took the time to do basic electric patches as well and tested them just a bit in the real world-

About 6 months ago, I blew a mental gasket and thoguth I had my main rig in the car for a gig, and was tryingto figure out how to get it there in time when it hit me, I could just use the yamaha-

Of course it wasn't exactly teh same thing, but since I had similar core patches to work with, I was already in the ball park and I got to concentrate on the songs instead of technology that night:)

Good thread!
 
NIGHT AND DAy

NIGHT AND DAy

can tell a huge difference between pups with an ibanez jem with evolutions played to a pod 2 to a fender hot rod 1x12 amp= very good sound for higain.

the same pod 2 with my peavey classic 50 4x10 and strat with jb sounded like crap(pardon my french).
in that same amp a little diferent but crap as well with my strat and JB.

could dimarzios sound better with modeling amps?
 
Re: Pickups and digital modelling amps...

I hear more difference through a real amp but maybe coz of the much louder volume
 
Re: Pickups and digital modelling amps...

I think modelers tend to like humbuckers more than singles, and also Alnico 5 more than 2, but that's just my opinion.

Also, if you use modelers at low volumes, they tend to sound more lifeless, than if you crenk the master all the way up, and use the gain as your volume. At least at higher volumes, the speaker tone is being utilized too.

I think the key to getting modeling amps to sound good is to view them like a tube amp when you're choosing the amp models.......meaning to use the amp model as the basis of the tone, but using your gain/EQ to make it sound as tube-like as possible. Things get buzzy quickly if you don't learn how to meld the OD models with the amp's gain knob properly.
 
Re: Pickups and digital modelling amps...

ArtieToo said:
... btw - The more distortion I dial in, the less difference there is between pups. "Clean" is where the definition is.


+1 for sure ... with my line6 ux2, i get a DUCKBUCKER to scream with the SLO model !?!

and gotta be sure that compression and gating is off or only very minimal

t4d
 
Re: Pickups and digital modelling amps...

I have what might be an oddball technique for getting the most out of my modeller. I mostly use just two settings, "Tweed" for the Tele's, "Blackface" for the humbuckers. The Strat might get anything. The J-Station has all these different effects built in and I never use any of them. I run a Yamaha effects unit in parallel with the "J". I mix the two at around a 75/25 ratio.

I set the Yamaha on its "acoustic" setting to add a bit of shimmer to the mix, or I'll run a deep reverb to smooth it out and add depth. I'll switch to a "jazz" setting to sharpen things up a bit. But at all times, its only about 20-30% of the signal. It just takes the digital "edge" off.

Seems to work great. ;)

Artie
 
Re: Pickups and digital modelling amps...

tone4days said:
+1 for sure ... with my line6 ux2, i get a DUCKBUCKER to scream with the SLO model !?!

t4d

That's exactly what I mean... I think when you go to extreme settings with a modeller, it doesn't matter anymore what guitar and pup you use... they all sound the same.

The only way I can like the VOX modeller is by doing this:

I take the amp and put it in front of me on a table. I then dial an ideal clean sound, which is either the 2X12 balck face or the clean Vox AC30. Once I get the perfect clean I want, I memorize the settings.

I then try to get two types of OD sounds: a slighty breaking up OD sound for blues and a JMC800 type crunch. In all cases, keeping the gain low is the key. Any gain settings past 12 o'clock sounds like crap IMO.

I then totally ignore all the other bells and wistles of the amp.

So far, the little Vox is pretty neat... as long as I know that this is not my only amp and that I'll be buying a tube amp in 6 months :D

But for fooling around the house, they're A-1.
 
Re: Pickups and digital modelling amps...

i have a vox ad50 .If you use the"volume" and "master" at 10 ,u will not hear big differences between pu's.But if you turn the master down to 5 and turn your level and gain knobs higher or lower ,the differences will appear clearly.Thats because of the 12ax7 at the end of the chain ,wich is a part of the power amp.The level knob is just "driving" the poweramp.Wich means ,the "colored" and "modeled" tone goes to power amp wich has a tube.If the tube is overdriven wich means level and master on 10 ,you will hear no differences anymore.Your pick attack nuances will dissapear ,and different pu's just show their diiferent EQ settings ,but nothing else.Harmonics and all other "living" charakters of your guitar and pu will not be heard clearly.
 
Re: Pickups and digital modelling amps...

Thanks for the tip...

But mind you, Vox removed the tube from the AD15VT version.
 
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