pickups and frequency emphasis issues with DIY baritone guitar

[pjd3]

Hello.

I'm having an odd issue that is somewhat baffling me, perhaps some of you could offer some insight or guidance.

I build a baritone from scratch (28.625) for the sole purpose of playing acoustic type fingerstyle on electric guitar. Now, the thing is, while I am grateful that this guitar came out so well structurally, I am having issues with certain frequencies (or frequency bands) being very emphasized and to be honest, I do not know how much of this is a result of the inherent freq response of the guitar or, the pickup choices I have made. I'm spent countless hours in my DAW using good parametric EQ to try to "De-emphasize" certain frequencies or frequency band to address these frequency over-emphasis that is occurring. And again, I"m having an issue discerning how much of this is the actual guitar or the pickups.

I should mention that while baritones of this scale (28 5/8") are normally tuned down to A or B, I found that this left a sort of "thunkyness" to the sound when fingerpicking. As an experiment, I tuned the guitar up to D which is much higher than what would normally be done on a 28" scale guitar but, for acoustic style fingerpicking it brought the guitar to life - string harmonics came alive, begun to dance and swirl together much better. It made me love the guitar. But, I have to wonder it this also threw in another element that is exacerbating certain frequencies in an excessive manner. From doing doing sweeps with the parametric it seems that the range of about 300Hz to 1.5KHz is where this emphasis's lie.

This guitar has actually two bridge pickups - a Seymour Duncan 5/2 Tele pickup closest to the bridge and a Seymour Duncan Lipstick pickup a little further up from the bridge but not quite in the middle. Then, a Dimarzio Humbucker from Hell for the Neck pickup. Although I really like the clean sound of the HFH in a few youtube video's, it does have certain frequencies that are very emphasized and hard to tame with EQ. I've usually been very successful at discovering problematic frequencies and pulling them down but, for whatever reason it is difficult to find and tame on this pickup. This also happens somewhat with the Tele 5/2 pickup, a really poking and fatiguing frequency that I feel like I shouldn't be hearing when compared to these pickups in standard guitars. The Seymour Duncan Lipstick pickup is the only one that doesn't seem to severely emphasize frequencies to this extreme. I"m confused. I just don't know where or why this is occurring.

A little more info, this 28" scale baritone is modelled around a Telecaster with and Ash body and maple neck with Ebony fingerboard. While I know wood type can certainly influence the basic response of a guitar, I had never expected that it would or could take it to this extreme. Its fairly ubiquitous components that I'm using. I know the Humbucker from Hell is a different kind of pickup and does have a reputation of having some odd frequency emphasis that some people hate. I would blame this on the HFH but, I hear the emphasis in the Tele bridge position also..

So, does any notions come to mind as to what is happening here? Did I just inadvertently choose the wrong type of pickups for this guitar and application? I have to wonder if the Lipstick pickup is giving me a clue to what this guitar really needs as it seems to not be as "frequency Peaky" as the other two. Perhaps I need to find the flattest pickups I can for this guitar and use EQ to sweeten it up? I don't know.

If anything comes to mind, I'd be very interested in what you think. I do really love the playability of this guitar and it has been made to be very flexible with the circuit, as in being able to go S/P/cutcoil for the neck pickup, and choice of bridge pups, while also having both bridge pups in parallel, with the option to put the Neck up configs in series with the any of the bridge pups. Some sound better than others but, thats why I did such and elaborate schematic for this guitar, to have lots of options to discover and choose from.

Thanks everyone, appreciate you coming by.
Best,
Phil D.

 

[jeremy]

got a pic of the guitar? pup placement has a big influence on how things sound. what strings are you using? theres no inherent reason the 5/2 tele bridge pup would sound weird.

 

[ICTGoober]

Not to be TOO pedantic, but the pickups are part of the actual guitar. It's a system.

 

[pjd3]

Thanks guys, and that is what I thought about the 5/2. I purposely got that to calm the top 3 strings down a bit, as maybe a mild "low pass filter of sorts", sweeten up the higher strings for primarily fingerstyle on electric.

I will need to figure out a way to post pics, and sure, I'm well aware that pickup locations effect the tone very acutely. What I did was measure the distance of the pickups from the bridge on a standard Telecaster and formulate the math to position my Baritone neck and bridge the same ratio of distance on the 28.625" scale of the baritone, in attempt to keep the pup positions standard to the string length.

And I am very aware that the pickups are part of the system. I expect the necessity of trial and error but was interested in any finds or experience others might have in their own journeys - perhaps a similar thing had happened and they can describe how it was remedied.

Thank you,
PHil D

 

[jeremy]

i only have one baritone. mines a turner model t with a rickenbacker horseshoe type pup so quite different than yours, even with a similar scale length

 

[pjd3]

I should have mentioned that there are D'Addario baritone 13's round wound on the guitar now. The 14's were getting pretty tight tuned up at D. Most of the time, the low A and E string are tuned down a whole step or 3rd to accommodate the DADGAD or Orkney tuning that I use most of the time (or some variation of those tunings).

 

[ehdwuld]

Could be a saddle thing
With a saddle to high/ low
Could be a pole on the pickup being high/low

Could be a misalignment of the bridge

So many things on a DIY guitar of whatever scale

Pictures would help use some masking tape to camouflage the body shape or whatever is preventing them from bei g posted

May be a string gauge vs scale length issue

 

[pjd3]

I have really wondered if string gauge vs scale and such could be the introducer of this. In terms of bridge/saddle/pole, this guitar was built with the oversight of Jon Mouradian, one of the well known and trusted luthiers in this area (son of Jim Mouradian). When I told him I wanted him to provide the fret job following my building of the previous step, he said "No Phil. I'm not doing the frets. "YOU" are doing the frets! And I will guide and mentor you through every step of the process, sending home with you the proper tools to do a good job". He did the final Nut, which was actually an oversize jumbo fret, a zero fret which seems to have worked out very well.

The Bridge however is all Brass, made by a guy in Sweden on Ebay, The close up pics of his bridges looked like very well machined bridges and saddles so I spent the $100 for one of his bridges. It had the wide spacing for this guitar that I didn't find in many places.

I've had to wonder if brass saddles can cause oddities in overtone series. I personally wouldn't know the answer to that unless I substituted it with other materials which I would be willing to do if I thought it could possibly be a source of tonal variation.

But still, I really wouldn't be surprised if finding the more appropriate pickup would address the "issue" I am hearing. All I can do is keep trying things and listening to people who have had experiences like this, and landed on a "solution", whatever that may have been.

I did come across one guy who was "telling my story" so to speak. He was having issues very similar to those I'm having and among other pickups, gave the Bill Lawrence Wilde microcoil Strat pickups a try, and claimed it brought the guitar to exactly where he wanted it to be. I have heard that those are very differently designed pickups with different intentions in mind. I thought that was interesting. As a matter of fact, I called the number on the Bill and Becky Lawrence website. I got Becky on the phone, and she we had a 40 minute conversation. That was great. I got a very generous run down on their history, and our own history. Great insight into Bills pickup endeavors over the decades. His microcoils do seem very interesting though, and my kids wouldn't have to eat Kibbles n Bits for weeks if I purchased them!

Thanks guys, I'll see about getting a pic up here, not too good at that yet.

Phil D.