TheLivingDead
Dawn Of The Shred
Re: Pickups for early VH sound
Holy hell. That's pretty much spot on. ^ Best attempt I've ever heard.
Holy hell. That's pretty much spot on. ^ Best attempt I've ever heard.
Pickups for early VH sound
- Thread starter tucor
- Start date
Re: Pickups for early VH sound
IMHO pete has nailed that tone to the furthest degree!:14:
it cant get any closer unless you put on the disc:28:
IMHO pete has nailed that tone to the furthest degree!:14:
it cant get any closer unless you put on the disc:28:
marcello252
Well-known member
Re: Pickups for early VH sound
I'm still convinced that there's not a single pickup doing the job, it all depends on what type of woods, bridge, amp you have.
same pickup sounds so different in each guitar that a single recipe is simply not enough.
For example, the superD in my strat through the plexi I had (I miss you darling) didn't sound that way, an a2p was closer.
I'm still convinced that there's not a single pickup doing the job, it all depends on what type of woods, bridge, amp you have.
same pickup sounds so different in each guitar that a single recipe is simply not enough.
For example, the superD in my strat through the plexi I had (I miss you darling) didn't sound that way, an a2p was closer.
Re: Pickups for early VH sound
The first album was probably Mighty Mite pickups in both the Strat and the Destroyer.
There are photos of Ed using Mighty Mite pickups in a Strat in 1977 (and 1978 in the Destroyer).
In case anyone doesn't know, early Mighty Mites were DiMarzio Super Distortion clones with a few differences.
There was a 13k ceramic model and a 9k ceramic model and they both rock a Plexi as does a DiMarzio Super Distortion.
Pete Thorns clip with a Super Distortion into a basically stock variaced 12 series Plexi type of amp would be just about the same if an early Mighty Mite was used instead.
A 12 series Marshall Superlead circuit is what Ed had.
There are other Marshall Superlead and Superbass circuits that are different.
A Strat with a Mighty Mite or Super Distortion into a Phase and then into an Echoplex EP-3 and then into a 90 volt variaced 12 series Marshall Superlead with Greenbacks and all of the amp knobs all turned up to 10 and no attenuator of any kind.
This gear combo can produce a fair bit of gain as can be seen in Pete Thorns clip.
No gear mods or tricks, the tricks are in the playing and the songs.
There is one gear trick maybe, no guitar tone controls and also the way set up his vintage trem for trying to keep in tune.
The only amp mod that might have been done was the possibility of a larger 2 inch output transformer installed instead of the stock 1.5 inch output transformer and the choke might have been replaced as well.
The idea of the Variac set at 90 volts and maybe the 2 inch output transformer were probably because Ed had a few amp output blowouts with the amp being all on 10 night after night and the Variac and larger output transformer help reduce the blowout risk.
1978 and second album was probably an Alnico hotter PAF wind in the Strat which could have even been an early JB with possibly a A2, obtained off Seymour himself.
The first album was probably Mighty Mite pickups in both the Strat and the Destroyer.
There are photos of Ed using Mighty Mite pickups in a Strat in 1977 (and 1978 in the Destroyer).
In case anyone doesn't know, early Mighty Mites were DiMarzio Super Distortion clones with a few differences.
There was a 13k ceramic model and a 9k ceramic model and they both rock a Plexi as does a DiMarzio Super Distortion.
Pete Thorns clip with a Super Distortion into a basically stock variaced 12 series Plexi type of amp would be just about the same if an early Mighty Mite was used instead.
A 12 series Marshall Superlead circuit is what Ed had.
There are other Marshall Superlead and Superbass circuits that are different.
A Strat with a Mighty Mite or Super Distortion into a Phase and then into an Echoplex EP-3 and then into a 90 volt variaced 12 series Marshall Superlead with Greenbacks and all of the amp knobs all turned up to 10 and no attenuator of any kind.
This gear combo can produce a fair bit of gain as can be seen in Pete Thorns clip.
No gear mods or tricks, the tricks are in the playing and the songs.
There is one gear trick maybe, no guitar tone controls and also the way set up his vintage trem for trying to keep in tune.
The only amp mod that might have been done was the possibility of a larger 2 inch output transformer installed instead of the stock 1.5 inch output transformer and the choke might have been replaced as well.
The idea of the Variac set at 90 volts and maybe the 2 inch output transformer were probably because Ed had a few amp output blowouts with the amp being all on 10 night after night and the Variac and larger output transformer help reduce the blowout risk.
1978 and second album was probably an Alnico hotter PAF wind in the Strat which could have even been an early JB with possibly a A2, obtained off Seymour himself.
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marcello252
Well-known member
Re: Pickups for early VH sound
The circuit details require some knowledge of amps.
Ed's amp is basically the same as the 1230X amp on this page http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=9680 and this 1230X Marshall Superlead circuit is only 4 serial numbers away from Ed's.
Marshall changed the circuit in 1968 to have more gain in the mids and changed some other things affecting the gain and tone.
Marshall changed the circuit again later on and Marshall have changed the Superlead circuit and component types quite a few times.
Not all Marshall Superleads are the same thing even though they are all Marshall Superleads.
There are amp builders that make a amp model based on Marshall 12 series Superlead specs that can be bought.
There is also a Marshall Plexi reissue model from the 1990s? that basically has the Marshall 12 series Superlead specs.
The circuit details require some knowledge of amps.
Ed's amp is basically the same as the 1230X amp on this page http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=9680 and this 1230X Marshall Superlead circuit is only 4 serial numbers away from Ed's.
Marshall changed the circuit in 1968 to have more gain in the mids and changed some other things affecting the gain and tone.
Marshall changed the circuit again later on and Marshall have changed the Superlead circuit and component types quite a few times.
Not all Marshall Superleads are the same thing even though they are all Marshall Superleads.
There are amp builders that make a amp model based on Marshall 12 series Superlead specs that can be bought.
There is also a Marshall Plexi reissue model from the 1990s? that basically has the Marshall 12 series Superlead specs.
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marcello252
Well-known member
Re: Pickups for early VH sound
OT:
I think the only significative difference is the V1 cathode resistor on the high treble channel. That was the mod I made on my Jcm800 I converted to 1959 spec, different in sound, yes, not so huge, at least at human volume level.
I think the lower plate voltage and the right transformer are the real key to get VH.
OT:
I think the only significative difference is the V1 cathode resistor on the high treble channel. That was the mod I made on my Jcm800 I converted to 1959 spec, different in sound, yes, not so huge, at least at human volume level.
I think the lower plate voltage and the right transformer are the real key to get VH.
Re: Pickups for early VH sound
Yes the preamp cathode resistors and capacitors in both stages are set for higher gain in the mids in a 12 series circuit.
The 12 series sort of circuit can be heard in Pete's clip of John Suhrs amp with different guitars and pickups.
I'm not certain but I think John Suhrs SL68 (basically a Marshall 12 series Superlead take) might have a large capacitor (Fat Cap) added in parallel to the second stage cathode capacitor and this would add some more gain in the bass.
Yes the preamp cathode resistors and capacitors in both stages are set for higher gain in the mids in a 12 series circuit.
The 12 series sort of circuit can be heard in Pete's clip of John Suhrs amp with different guitars and pickups.
I'm not certain but I think John Suhrs SL68 (basically a Marshall 12 series Superlead take) might have a large capacitor (Fat Cap) added in parallel to the second stage cathode capacitor and this would add some more gain in the bass.
Re: Pickups for early VH sound
Pete thorn is one of the only players that has impressed me in real long time. that guy has some serious talent! love his guitar nerd disc!
Pete thorn is one of the only players that has impressed me in real long time. that guy has some serious talent! love his guitar nerd disc!
marcello252
Well-known member
Re: Pickups for early VH sound
the Pete Thorn video above is the classic example that it's not only the pickup that can do a sound, although a bit thicker and boomier than original VH, even with a les paul the right vibe is there, you only need an humbucker.
Amp type in this case is way more important at least for the audience, maybe we can feel the difference with the pickup under the fingers, but externally the sound is almost right.
the Pete Thorn video above is the classic example that it's not only the pickup that can do a sound, although a bit thicker and boomier than original VH, even with a les paul the right vibe is there, you only need an humbucker.
Amp type in this case is way more important at least for the audience, maybe we can feel the difference with the pickup under the fingers, but externally the sound is almost right.
Hot Octopus
Member
Re: Pickups for early VH sound
Tb_11 or an Ibanez Super 70
Tb_11 or an Ibanez Super 70
Re: Pickups for early VH sound
I am a bit confused as to why many are saying get the duncan CC when the EVH frankenstein is a 100% clone of the ACTUAL pup from his guitar?
eddie never used the production model CC, he used the early proto of one and that is the EVH frankenstein pickup that duncan makes for fender/EVH :14:
I am a bit confused as to why many are saying get the duncan CC when the EVH frankenstein is a 100% clone of the ACTUAL pup from his guitar?
eddie never used the production model CC, he used the early proto of one and that is the EVH frankenstein pickup that duncan makes for fender/EVH :14:
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MattPete
New member
Re: Pickups for early VH sound
Spot-on is a Plexi (or clone, like a Metropoulos, or the Suhr featured above) dimed (or powerscaled). 25 watt greenbacks.
Spot-on is a Plexi (or clone, like a Metropoulos, or the Suhr featured above) dimed (or powerscaled). 25 watt greenbacks.
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MattPete
New member
Re: Pickups for early VH sound
The giant asterisk here is the the differences between the SuperBass, 12 series Superleads, and other Plexis, are just a few components (a cap here, a resistor there, etc.).
The giant asterisk here is the the differences between the SuperBass, 12 series Superleads, and other Plexis, are just a few components (a cap here, a resistor there, etc.).
80's_Metal
Underglazed Hair Metalologist
Re: Pickups for early VH sound
Just borrow Chris Holmes Jackson ....that'll do it.
Just borrow Chris Holmes Jackson ....that'll do it.
9unslin9er
New member
Re: Pickups for early VH sound
Yeah, in a stage scenario. We all know the actual amp was a Plexi. Problem is, most of us don't want tinnitus, the average weekend warrior doesn't dime his amp with neighbors next door.
My vote still stands. AFD100. Very manageable at bedroom levels and nails the sound.
Yeah, in a stage scenario. We all know the actual amp was a Plexi. Problem is, most of us don't want tinnitus, the average weekend warrior doesn't dime his amp with neighbors next door.
My vote still stands. AFD100. Very manageable at bedroom levels and nails the sound.
9unslin9er
New member
Re: Pickups for early VH sound
There's also the problem with expense. Hunt down an actual Plexi and variac it. Or better yet, get a Soldano SLO? Yeah, thanks I'd rather make a few mortgage payments.
There's also the problem with expense. Hunt down an actual Plexi and variac it. Or better yet, get a Soldano SLO? Yeah, thanks I'd rather make a few mortgage payments.
Re: Pickups for early VH sound
With a variac set to 90v, the 100 watt amp is really somewhere between 50 watts and 100 watts, say 75 watts.
Ed was really playing a 75 watt amp in the clubs or somewhere near it.
The photos of an early 1978 Whisky gig seem to show Ed not micing the cabinets.
Ed did mic the cabinets through the PA on the larger stadium venues in 1978 though.
I think he might just be using the bottom left cabinet with Celestions because the White Explorer guitar is in front of the 2 JBL/2 Celestion combo cab (JBLs aluminium shiny dustcaps) and Ed's top cabinets are for backup (he uses the bottom cabs because they are below ear level height).
With a variac set to 90v, the 100 watt amp is really somewhere between 50 watts and 100 watts, say 75 watts.
Ed was really playing a 75 watt amp in the clubs or somewhere near it.
The photos of an early 1978 Whisky gig seem to show Ed not micing the cabinets.
Ed did mic the cabinets through the PA on the larger stadium venues in 1978 though.
I think he might just be using the bottom left cabinet with Celestions because the White Explorer guitar is in front of the 2 JBL/2 Celestion combo cab (JBLs aluminium shiny dustcaps) and Ed's top cabinets are for backup (he uses the bottom cabs because they are below ear level height).
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Ashurbanipal
Well-known member
Re: Pickups for early VH sound
Omg, this amp is awesome (want!), not just for the VH tone - lovely clean with singles.
Omg, this amp is awesome (want!), not just for the VH tone - lovely clean with singles.
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