Pickups for mahogany Tele???

Pickups for mahogany Tele???

Dr. Vegetable said:
Again, you are claiming to know the significance of variables that you openly admit you don't know how to measure. You have jumped to a conclusion without formulating a hypothesis and testing that hypothesis experimentally under controlled conditions. You have done no such experiment, nor can you point to any lab that has done such an experiment. You posit (again without any reason) that no lab would ever be funded to conduct this experiment anyway. And yet, you cling to your unfounded belief.
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Wait, are you talking to Arius or the tonewoodologists here?
 
Re: Pickups for mahogany Tele???

jumble jumble said:
Wait, are you talking to Arius or the tonewoodologists here?
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I see what you did there... ;)

But no, the "tonewoodologists" are not the ones claiming to reside in the very Bosom o' Science. I am a scientist and engineer, and I know "science" when I see it. Anius is not speaking science, he is simply spouting an alternate faith, but presenting it under the false mantle of proven hard truth. I'm not saying he is wrong about the significance of tonewood in an electric guitar, but that he simply has not done his own homework to be able to support his own statements.

I'm not arguing with his conclusion, I am arguing with his flawed methodology. He's got the mental equivalent of Stink Foot.

 
Re: Pickups for mahogany Tele???

Fair enough.

I do think though that "body wood species is an almost negligible factor in tone compared to everything else" is the null hypothesis.

I decided not to do the clips thing, and to bow out of this discussion as well. The reason is that I've had this argument in many different places on the internet, although this is the first time it's about guitar wood. Usually it's about something like whether homeopathy works. In those instances the science has been done - proper, rigorous, double-blind placebo-controlled testing published and peer-reviewed. But it doesn't matter. People still go on believing what they want to, regardless of whether there's any truth in it. Now with this discussion, the science hasn't been done, so there's an instant get-out there. And if I post the clips, people will say it's not fair because the pickups/hardware/neck/scale length/etc are different, so how can they hear the difference in the wood? (If they did say that, they'd kinda be proving the point that all those other factors are more important). It's just not worth ny time. Nobody's going to change their mind - whoever's reading my words now, look in your brain. You know you're not going to change your mind about it, you're already planning all the ways to justify keeping your opinion.

It's fine. I didn't go from magical thinking to healthy skepticism in the space of one forum thread. It took years and it wasn't always a pleasant process. Maybe some people reading this are at the start of that journey now, and maybe some others will never take that journey. To be honest, I don't care, it's never going to affect my life in the slightest. It's just arguing about who's right, and each of us "knows" we are.

So yeah, that's me out. If you wanna take this as a concession that body wood has a huge effect on sound, then go ahead, it's fine by me.
 
Pickups for mahogany Tele???

Not trying to ruin the thread further, but I really have a hard time seeing how wood could impact tone once a solid body guitar is plugged in.... I mean, the pickups ain't microphonic and responds only to vibrations in the magnetic field, and that field is pointed up, not sideways or down where the wood is. I can see how the nut, bridge and strings (material, type, design etc.) will affect the magnetic field though (ie how the string resonates/vibrates)...

I would love to record a LP, then glue a big ass chunk of wood to the back, record it again and listen to the difference though. A 10" thick LP would be bad ass. :)
 
Re: Pickups for mahogany Tele???

Dahla said:
Not trying to ruin the thread further, but I really have a hard time seeing how wood could impact tone once a solid body guitar is plugged in.... I mean, the pickups ain't microphonic and responds only to vibrations in the magnetic field, and that field is pointed up, not sideways or down where the wood is. I can see how the nut, bridge and strings (material, type, design etc.) will affect the magnetic field though (ie how the string resonates/vibrates)...

I would love to record a LP, then glue a big ass chunk of wood to the back, record it again and listen to the difference though. A 10" thick LP would be bad ass. :)
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If the body material plays no part in the sound, I'm sure you could get similar results by making a guitar body out of styrofoam. Surely, either styrofoam or wood will have the same effect on the magnetic field? Why not cardboard?

more-guitars.jpg


Yep - sounds just like a Les Paul through a Marshall full stack!
 
Pickups for mahogany Tele???

Dr. Vegetable said:
If the body material plays no part in the sound, I'm sure you could get similar results by making a guitar body out of styrofoam. Surely, either styrofoam or wood will have the same effect on the magnetic field? Why not cardboard?

more-guitars.jpg


Yep - sounds just like a Les Paul through a Marshall full stack!
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Hey, I'm no expert. I just said I didn't understand. ;)

And that is only from the fact that my Epi explorer and Gibson explorer sound pretty much the same even though one is supposedly made out of awesome tonewood and the other is bullcrap. The differnce in feel between them on the other hand... :)
 
Pickups for mahogany Tele???

Dahla said:
Hey, I'm no expert. I just said I didn't understand. ;)

And that is only from the fact that my Epi explorer and Gibson explorer sound pretty much the same even though one is supposedly made out of awesome tonewood and the other is bullcrap. The differnce in feel between them on the other hand... :)
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Perhaps since both is made out of mahogany, and not mahogany vs alder, things kind of get intricate. I dunno...
 
Re: Pickups for mahogany Tele???

Dahla said:
Not trying to ruin the thread further, but I really have a hard time seeing how wood could impact tone once a solid body guitar is plugged in.... I mean, the pickups ain't microphonic and responds only to vibrations in the magnetic field, and that field is pointed up, not sideways or down where the wood is. I can see how the nut, bridge and strings (material, type, design etc.) will affect the magnetic field though (ie how the string resonates/vibrates)...

I would love to record a LP, then glue a big ass chunk of wood to the back, record it again and listen to the difference though. A 10" thick LP would be bad ass. :)
Click to expand...

This is the way I understand how wood plays a role. Hope it helps. I think we all agree on how the bridge, nut, Strings, ( their material, type & design ), scalelength play a role. Well the Stings pass on the vibration to the body and neck through the Bridge and the nut. Diff pieces of wood vibrate/ resonate in a diff manner/way, some resonate long some short, This is transferred back to the bridge and nut, and back to the strings. I think Mr.Tondo in post 81 put it very well.
 
Pickups for mahogany Tele???

Jocelyn said:
This is the way I understand how wood plays a role. Hope it helps. I think we all agree on how the bridge, nut, Strings, ( their material, type & design ), scalelength play a role. Well the Stings pass on the vibration to the body and neck through the Bridge and the nut. Diff pieces of wood vibrate/ resonate in a diff manner/way, some resonate long some short, This is transferred back to the bridge and nut, and back to the strings. I think Mr.Tondo in post 81 put it very well.
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Ah, that makes total sense; that the wood affects how the bridge and nut affects the strings. And on and on it goes.

Thank you. :)
 
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Re: Pickups for mahogany Tele???

Dahla said:
Ah, that makes total sense; that the wood affects how the bridge and nut affects the strings. And on and on it goes.

Thank you. :)
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You are very Welcomed :) . Just to add more when the strings are played diff species of wood either shave, dampen, absorb or boost certain freq. Thereby creating the diff Tone woods we have. Hope I make sense.
 
Re: Pickups for mahogany Tele???

All I'm gonna say on this topic is this. Good pickups in a guitar with sub-par wood sounds better than bad pickups in amazing wood. Not saying tonewood does or doesn't matter, just stating that in an electric guitar, a good set of pickups can make all the difference in the world.
 
Re: Pickups for mahogany Tele???

Arius said:
Straw man.

I never said it was impossible, because it is not. I said I cannot conduct it and I doubt any lab capable of conducting it would ever be granted funding for a complete peer review-worthy trial. I cannot prove it but logically there is nothing to suggest wood makes any difference discernible to the human ear. There is just no reason to believe that, based on the principles of how the signal is shaped and the many variables we know to matter, that tonewood is at all important among them.



It is common knowledge there are typically more lurkers of forums of this size than active posters. So many search engine queries asking specific questions lead to forum threads, and relatively few who read resulting threads actually register, much less contribute with regular posts.



I don't ignore them. I assert that difference of wood is so insignificant as to not matter at all in the real world. A heavy plastic body or a carbon fiber neck will not sound discernibly different.



I'm tired of repeating that I would like nothing more than a controlled study where the only variable is wood. In the absence of that, we can look at how the signal of an electric guitar is shaped to conclude that wood, or body/neck composition in general, is among the least important variables.



The difference with a hollow-body electric could very well be significant enough to make some perceivable impact on the output. That is why I exclude them. A solid-body electric has no soundbox and no vibrating soundboard.



Not an equal role. Not all parts will contribute enough to make a perceivable difference when swapped with components of the same type with different composition (the body wood or neck wood.)



This lesson is completely irrelevant. Humans appreciate subtle variation, something that was not easy to accomplish in the early days of programmed music. With advances in sampling and physical modeling, "programmable music" is becoming more sophisticated, human-like and transparent such that you, and others, hear it all the time and do not realize it.



I have heard plenty of guitarists I would say the same about.



What an absolute train-wreck of a tangent...
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The contradictions from this post are legion. I'm done wasting time addressing them.

I'm not even mildly amused at the glaring absence of science in the assertion of science, and the close-minded argument that your opponents are close-minded.

:doh:

I am amused at your anecdotal evidence of lurkers in the same post in which you call anecdotal data "an absolute train wreck of a tangent.
 
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Re: Pickups for mahogany Tele???

Correction: the assertion that there are numerous lurkers who agree with you is not anecdotal. It's pure speculation.
 
Re: Pickups for mahogany Tele???

I can't wait till this thread gets resurrected 6 years from now so we can all have this discussion again! :lmao:
 
Re: Pickups for mahogany Tele???

Dahla said:
Not trying to ruin the thread further, but I really have a hard time seeing how wood could impact tone once a solid body guitar is plugged in.... I mean, the pickups ain't microphonic and responds only to vibrations in the magnetic field, and that field is pointed up, not sideways or down where the wood is. I can see how the nut, bridge and strings (material, type, design etc.) will affect the magnetic field though (ie how the string resonates/vibrates)...

I would love to record a LP, then glue a big ass chunk of wood to the back, record it again and listen to the difference though. A 10" thick LP would be bad ass. :)
Click to expand...


Not true, otherwise why would people treat their pickups with wax as a cure for feedback and squealing.
If only the magnetic field was relevant this wouldn't happen.
It's acoustic feedback and where does it come from if not from the pickups and body?
 
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