Pickups for Stoner/Doom metal on a SG

[PonyKiller]

Hey,

New member here. Just started to play the guitar again after a 5 year hiatus so I'm really out of the loop on the whole pickup thing.

I'm looking for a set of pups to play stoner/doom metal (Sleep, Kyuss, Electric Wizard, Cathedral, Orange Goblin, etc...).
The tone on these genres is really distortion heavy and bassy BUT not muddy. The distortion mainly comes from a tube amp on the verge of meltdown and a fuzz or a big muff pedal on top.

The pups will be for a Gibson 78 SG std. I currently have a Dimarzio Super Distortion in the bridge and the stock t-top on the neck. Tuning is standard but sometimes go down a step or two.
The SuperDist worked OK but gets somewhat muddy on high volumes and even worse when I add the big muff and I feel that chords sound,,, err, too defined? Don't know how to explain this... I'd like to get "dirtier" sounding chords, if that makes any sense. I think the ceramic magnet might be the culprit.
The t-top sounds massive but it's really old and beaten up. The cover is missing and the strings won't align correctly. I have to jam things in the cavity to get an even sound, otherwise the high e string is inaudible. Don't know which magnet it has but it isn't ceramic. I've read that only the t-tops with two screw coils have ceramics. This one has a slug coil.

So, what do you guys say? I'm thinking maybe I need lower output pickups.
Alnico V or II or stay with ceramic for the bridge?

My experience with Seymour Duncan Pickups is really limited. Back in the day, when the original 70's Super Distortion failed, I tried a JB Model and really hated it. Kinda the opposite of what I wanted. That was my fault. I just walked into the store and asked for "the best SD pickup they had". I was soo young and stupid,,, hahaha. Anyway, I had to sell it and bought a new Super Dist as I knew it kinda worked.

Any help is really appreciated.

 

[dominus]

Re: Pickups for Stoner/Doom metal on a SG

SH-14/TB-14 Custom 5.

Medium hot output, Alnico 5 magnet, perfect in SGs.

 

[PonyKiller]

Re: Pickups for Stoner/Doom metal on a SG

SH-14/TB-14 Custom 5.

Medium hot output, Alnico 5 magnet, perfect in SGs.

Thanks for the prompt answer! I was just looking at some videos on youtube about the Custom 5 on LPs and SG and I'm really liking what I'm hearing so far.

I've tried the Custom 5 before but it was on one of those crazy 27 fret ESP/LTD guitars and got some really nice classic rock and metal tones. I remember the top end was kinda bright but I'm guessing it's because of the longer scale and the floyd rose. That guitar was nothing like an SG.

The spec chart on the Seymour Duncan site says it's rated at 14.4k. Isn't that a bit high? The Super Distortion is rated at 13.68k and says it's a high output humbucker. I'm having muddy sound problems with it at high volume/distortion.
However it says it has an 8 on treble and a 6 on bass. Now, I have no idea how to interpret that T/M/B scales on the Seymour Duncan and Dimarzio sites, or if they are even standardized, but the Super Distortion has a 5.5 on treble and a 8 on bass. Kinda the opposite EQ of the Custom 5 so maybe that will cure my muddiness problems.

Now, this opposite EQ thing got me thinking... How much different is the Custom 5 compared to the JB Model? I've already tried a JB on this particular guitar and it was really far from the sound I was searching.

 

[cheameup]

Re: Pickups for Stoner/Doom metal on a SG

first you probably dont want ceramic. generally they have tighter bottom end than A5 .

If you got $ to spend an alnico bare knuckle warpig could be right up your alley . don't put too much stock in the k rating. my warpig is rated 22k and its hot but not ridoncoulous hot

I had a C5 for years and its a cool pickup . it is pretty scooped in the mids so it depends how you like you mid content . but it works well in SG's

 

[Mad Raxz]

Re: Pickups for Stoner/Doom metal on a SG

Oh yeah the Customs are great, but I would switch the mag to an A8. Piece of cake to switch em. The A8 give you that extra punch which I feel is needed on the Customs, for metal that is. This on the bridge and a good old 59 on the neck, but I'd switch that mag to an UOA5 (unoriented).

 

[dominus]

Re: Pickups for Stoner/Doom metal on a SG

The spec chart on the Seymour Duncan site says it's rated at 14.4k. Isn't that a bit high? The Super Distortion is rated at 13.68k and says it's a high output humbucker.

Resistance isn't always the true indicator of output.

Look at the specs on Dimarzio's site for the Steve Morse bridge and neck pickups.

 

[PonyKiller]

Re: Pickups for Stoner/Doom metal on a SG

first you probably dont want ceramic. generally they have tighter bottom end than A5 .

If you got $ to spend an alnico bare knuckle warpig could be right up your alley . don't put too much stock in the k rating. my warpig is rated 22k and its hot but not ridoncoulous hot

I had a C5 for years and its a cool pickup . it is pretty scooped in the mids so it depends how you like you mid content . but it works well in SG's

Ok, ceramic is out. I knew it had something to do with the tight sounding chords. Leaves me with A5 and A2 to choose from.

Bareknuckles are really expensive. I was about to buy a Nailbomb set but went over my budget. I have to keep the price of both pickups below 150 usd as I'm also getting a full refret (bye bye fret nibs) and possibly a bridge relocation. Maybe a refinish also if its necessary to drill/plug stud holes...


The Custom 5 sounds good right now. The scooped mids are welcome. That will give me more control of the mids on the amp compared to the SuperDist which I feel it kind of has an in-your-face mid punch.

Resistance isn't always the true indicator of output.

Look at the specs on Dimarzio's site for the Steve Morse bridge and neck pickups.

Oh, I didn't knew that. I always thought that the higher the DC Resistance is, the harder the pickup will drive the amp. Isn't that output? Looking at the Steve Morse pickups makes me realize that I'm wrong with my idea of higher output = higher DC Res. as it makes no sense to put a higher output pickup in the neck as it will create a volume disbalance with the bridge pickup (a problem I had with Dimarzio HS-3 and other pickups in a Strat I had).
I was looking for a way to compare the Super Dist to other pickups, as is the only reference I have right now, and the DC Resistance was the only thing on both charts that gave away an indication of the output level. Dimarzio has a "Output mV" parameter to denote output but I couldn't find it or the equivalent on the SDuncan tone comp. chart.

Oh yeah the Customs are great, but I would switch the mag to an A8. Piece of cake to switch em. The A8 give you that extra punch which I feel is needed on the Customs, for metal that is. This on the bridge and a good old 59 on the neck, but I'd switch that mag to an UOA5 (unoriented).

I'd rather keep the pickups stock in case I have to exchange or sell them.

Doom metal has kind of a different sound to traditional metal. I'd prefer the pickup to be less punchy and more sludgy, if that makes any sense hahaha.



What about some Alnico II pickups? I've seen that many people on the stoner/doom gang use recent Gibson SG guitars (a lot of SG specials) with stock humbucking pickups and get a killer doom sound. I'm not sure but if I recall correctly most of the stock recent Gibson pups are Alnico II. I'd look into those but are over my budget at +100 usd a piece.

 

[cheameup]

Re: Pickups for Stoner/Doom metal on a SG

what amp are you using ?

 

[PonyKiller]

Re: Pickups for Stoner/Doom metal on a SG

I'm using an Orange thunderverb50 thru a Mesa cab with four V30 spkrs. Sounds really good with the Super Distortion for anything else but when going to stoner/doom territory it gets somewhat muddy. I'm thinking of adding a fuzz face or big muff in front to get that classic stoner sound going but I'm afraid the muddiness will be far worse.

That's why I want a pickup that doesn't drive the amp really hard.

What about the alnico II pro or the other A2 pickups?
If I recall correctly the Seth Lover models are unpotted, so that one is out. I'm guessing the thing will squeal really bad under so much gain. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. I don't want to leave any good option out.

 

[KBliss]

Re: Pickups for Stoner/Doom metal on a SG

Ive never used a big muff- so its hard to picture the Dmarz Super D not being what you what. BUT this reminded of my Epiphone SG- i kept putting in pickups but the only obe I liked for the Iommi sound was the stock epiphones- everything else was too articulate while the Epi's were extra dirty. Unfortunately, i traded them away, but kept the guitar.

I dunno if youve tried the Gibson Iommi pickup: its very buttery in the middle,: when i tried to use it, the top end was bright yet too dynamic- i preferred a more compressed tone. All i can say is it felt very weird, like a "drenched" sound..

 

[PonyKiller]

Re: Pickups for Stoner/Doom metal on a SG

I haven't used a big muff pi pedal in 5 or 6 years but it has a really deep and bassy distortion sound with a touch of fuzz thrown in. That's if the pedal gain knob is all the way up (I think is labeled Sustain, I don't remember). It's also capable of putting a really nice creamy lead sound with a Stratocaster.
The Super Dist is great. I used to have Super Dists on all my guitars back in the day. Still got 1 or 2 unopeded lying around. Works great for all the other styles I play but I feel it doesn't put the right flavor for stoner/doom metal.


The Gibson Iommi pickups look good but they are way out of my budget. I'm not looking for the Iommi tone in particular. A better reference for the tone I'm looking for would be the stoner and doom bands from the mid/late 80's and 90's. They where inspired by the early Sabbath tone but got their own thing going. Most of those guys use BASS tube amps heads driven by a distortion pedal for the guitar.



What do you guys think of the Custom Custom? It has an A2 mag but what really worries me is the low bass figure (7 / 7 / 3 (Treb / Mid / Bass)).

So far I'm going with a Custom 5 bridge / A2Pro neck set. Do those two pickups go well together?

 

[xjbear]

Re: Pickups for Stoner/Doom metal on a SG

I haven't used a big muff pi pedal in 5 or 6 years but it has a really deep and bassy distortion sound with a touch of fuzz thrown in. That's if the pedal gain knob is all the way up (I think is labeled Sustain, I don't remember). It's also capable of putting a really nice creamy lead sound with a Stratocaster.
The Super Dist is great. I used to have Super Dists on all my guitars back in the day. Still got 1 or 2 unopeded lying around. Works great for all the other styles I play but I feel it doesn't put the right flavor for stoner/doom metal.


The Gibson Iommi pickups look good but they are way out of my budget. I'm not looking for the Iommi tone in particular. A better reference for the tone I'm looking for would be the stoner and doom bands from the mid/late 80's and 90's. They where inspired by the early Sabbath tone but got their own thing going. Most of those guys use BASS tube amps heads driven by a distortion pedal for the guitar.



What do you guys think of the Custom Custom? It has an A2 mag but what really worries me is the low bass figure (7 / 7 / 3 (Treb / Mid / Bass)).

So far I'm going with a Custom 5 bridge / A2Pro neck set. Do those two pickups go well together?

The custom custom is a very awesome pickup in an SG goth I had, but that was before I started in the sludgy doom stuff myself, it had a middy grind that was really notchy and cool, but in my Gibson V it is way too bright, almost stratty and slappy, at least thru a TSL100. I'm looking for the same thing, been through 8 pickup changes so far and now I'm going to start trying out low output pups. Just remember fuzz pedals are almost always designed around low output strat pickups, too much output driving a fuzz will slam it into **** mode/octaviating nasty toneless crap. My trek continues with a darker low output next lol

 

[PonyKiller]

Re: Pickups for Stoner/Doom metal on a SG

The custom custom is a very awesome pickup in an SG goth I had, but that was before I started in the sludgy doom stuff myself, it had a middy grind that was really notchy and cool, but in my Gibson V it is way too bright, almost stratty and slappy, at least thru a TSL100. I'm looking for the same thing, been through 8 pickup changes so far and now I'm going to start trying out low output pups. Just remember fuzz pedals are almost always designed around low output strat pickups, too much output driving a fuzz will slam it into **** mode/octaviating nasty toneless crap. My trek continues with a darker low output next lol

Thanks for replying. Sounds like the Custom Custom is not what I'm looking for.

I haven't settled on a pickup set for that guitar yet. Needs mayor bridge surgery to get rid of the nasty wide harmonica bridge so it's out of commision for the moment.

Anyway, when I get around to fix that guitar I have planned to try a Vintage Blues set (two '59s). Those are low output pickups but not dark sounding. I tried them on a newer SG and they had a bright-ish tone. My SG is really dark sounding (neck p'up is closer to the neck like on a LP) and my amp too has a dark tone so I'm hoping that the '59 will even the sound out. What I'm trying to avoid is getting a really defined and clear tone but stay away from mud city.

Hope the '59s will do it. If not, I'm trying mag swaps.

EDIT: Ah, I was forgetting about the Lace p'ups. Lace recently put out Matt Pike and Wino signature pickups. These look like are voiced for the darker doom/stoner stuff but are high output p'ups.
http://www.lacemusic.com/heshers.php
http://www.lacemusic.com/wino_lifers.php

They look really interesting but I couldn't find any reviews back when I was looking for doom/stoner pickups. Haven't checked recently.

 

[xjbear]

Re: Pickups for Stoner/Doom metal on a SG

Yea the Lace pups definitely have some viability for doom, especially the Pike's. I'm afraid the Wino's would be out unless u plug straight into a model T or old Uni. His pickups are way hot. The Hemi set is my next venture 9-10k with more thickness wide open and brighter turned down and cheaper then the pikes
I'm having a great time with my old tone zone now, 500k volume 1 meg tone with a .01 mod oil cap. It's roaring like never before. Just remember to play with pot values somewhat too, I've always discounted that as poopola but it helped tremendously with this project

 

[xjbear]

Re: Pickups for Stoner/Doom metal on a SG

I have found in stoner/doom my bass players tone is more important than mine for once lol

 

[tonello]

Re: Pickups for Stoner/Doom metal on a SG

I would really go with a Tony Iommi Sig pup. When you get down to the bare bones of it, Black Sabbath was kind of the world's first Doom metal band. List to Black Sabbath (the song) and you'll know what I'm talking about.

 

[xjbear]

Re: Pickups for Stoner/Doom metal on a SG

I would really go with a Tony Iommi Sig pup. When you get down to the bare bones of it, Black Sabbath was kind of the world's first Doom metal band. List to Black Sabbath (the song) and you'll know what I'm talking about.

we actually cover Wicked World, fun song and killer old guitar tone. His sig pickup tho is nowhere close and way too expensive. It's more like his Mob Rules kinda sound unfortunately, way more rock and trebley.

The key is a darker, mid bassy tone and letting the amp produce the highs, lofi guitar and the amp hifi'ing it you know.

The best Doom tone I've heard of late is on any of Sahg's albums but more on Sahg I, that stuff is bada**

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Pickups for Stoner/Doom metal on a SG

Thanks for replying. Sounds like the Custom Custom is not what I'm looking for.

I haven't settled on a pickup set for that guitar yet. Needs mayor bridge surgery to get rid of the nasty wide harmonica bridge so it's out of commision for the moment.

Anyway, when I get around to fix that guitar I have planned to try a Vintage Blues set (two '59s). Those are low output pickups but not dark sounding. I tried them on a newer SG and they had a bright-ish tone. My SG is really dark sounding (neck p'up is closer to the neck like on a LP) and my amp too has a dark tone so I'm hoping that the '59 will even the sound out. What I'm trying to avoid is getting a really defined and clear tone but stay away from mud city.

Hope the '59s will do it. If not, I'm trying mag swaps.

EDIT: Ah, I was forgetting about the Lace p'ups. Lace recently put out Matt Pike and Wino signature pickups. These look like are voiced for the darker doom/stoner stuff but are high output p'ups.
http://www.lacemusic.com/heshers.php
http://www.lacemusic.com/wino_lifers.php

They look really interesting but I couldn't find any reviews back when I was looking for doom/stoner pickups. Haven't checked recently.

If you don't want bright, '59s won't be what you want. I would say get any of the Customs and all the magnets you can get, especially check out A8, UOA5, and A9 (new on Addiction FX).

Though I think the Custom Custom may be your answer. In any type of Doom, you want MIDS MIDS MIDS, and the low end to come from the bass player (that is how bands avoid muddiness). Just make sure you have no-to-very-little presence on your amp, set the mid control high, tweak the amount of bass on the amp so it is not too little but not too much, and tweak the treble so it is a bit rolled off but not too dark where it loses clarity. Good luck.

 

[xjbear]

Re: Pickups for Stoner/Doom metal on a SG

And check out the P-rails, hands down the best throaty tone I've heard, just make double sure their wired in series tho

 

[PonyKiller]

Re: Pickups for Stoner/Doom metal on a SG

Yea the Lace pups definitely have some viability for doom, especially the Pike's. I'm afraid the Wino's would be out unless u plug straight into a model T or old Uni. His pickups are way hot. The Hemi set is my next venture 9-10k with more thickness wide open and brighter turned down and cheaper then the pikes
I'm having a great time with my old tone zone now, 500k volume 1 meg tone with a .01 mod oil cap. It's roaring like never before. Just remember to play with pot values somewhat too, I've always discounted that as poopola but it helped tremendously with this project

Yea, the Wino's seem to hot to stack with fuzz pedals. Pike's are somewhat on the hot side too but I'll keep them on my list.

I actually have 2 ToneZones lying around unused. Never felt like trying it on the SG because I'm feeling it'll be waaaay too dark sounding. I'm gonna stock on 1M pots and give them a ride. What the hell, even on the neck position!

If you don't want bright, '59s won't be what you want. I would say get any of the Customs and all the magnets you can get, especially check out A8, UOA5, and A9 (new on Addiction FX).

Though I think the Custom Custom may be your answer. In any type of Doom, you want MIDS MIDS MIDS, and the low end to come from the bass player (that is how bands avoid muddiness). Just make sure you have no-to-very-little presence on your amp, set the mid control high, tweak the amount of bass on the amp so it is not too little but not too much, and tweak the treble so it is a bit rolled off but not too dark where it loses clarity. Good luck.

Thanks. I was looking at the Custom line but I'm afraid they are on the hot side. I'm digging the mag swap ability of the pickups but I'll leave that as a plan b because overseas shipping on a bag of magnets would kill me at the moment (plus the cost of a pair of p'ups by themselves).

I can get the vintage blues set really cheap and still have some money left to get all the cool alnico magnets to finetune the '59s. I'm liking the low output wind so I think it's a good place to start.

And check out the P-rails, hands down the best throaty tone I've heard, just make double sure their wired in series tho

Never tried those. Do they keep the p-90-ish tone with the rail coil in series? If so, I might pass. I already have a guitar with a killer set of old sixties Gibson P-90s that keep me happy for that old Sabbath tone.