Since no one wants to respond to my earlier question, I figured I'd try to start a little debate (which means you won't respond). Can anyone tell that much of a difference from pickup to pickup? Maybe some are wound a little more or are made from a different magnet, but isn't everyone just nitpicking a little bit? There's a difference from something on a $100 guitar and a $1000 guitar. This is obvious. I'm just saying, isn't a pickup is a pickup is a pickup when it all comes down to it? Is there anyone that believes that tone, while coming from a quality instrument, is mainly found in your fingers? Not your $10,000 setup? You know, playing with your soul instead of your wallet?
Pickups in general
- Thread starter starchild
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Benjy_26
25's Nemesis
Re: Pickups in general
Everybody sounds different playing the same rig, it's just down to the little differences in how each one of us does everything.
Granted, I can live with playing a stock Squire Tele through a Peavey Transtube combo, but I'd much rather play my Hamer with the pickups I chose through the rig I put together.
As far as my being able to tell the difference between pickups: Yes, I can. I can tell the differences in sound between things like saddles, strings, capacitors, pots, heck, even down to what shape and material my pick is made of. :burnout:
Everybody sounds different playing the same rig, it's just down to the little differences in how each one of us does everything.
Granted, I can live with playing a stock Squire Tele through a Peavey Transtube combo, but I'd much rather play my Hamer with the pickups I chose through the rig I put together.
As far as my being able to tell the difference between pickups: Yes, I can. I can tell the differences in sound between things like saddles, strings, capacitors, pots, heck, even down to what shape and material my pick is made of. :burnout:
Benjy_26
25's Nemesis
Re: Pickups in general
Try going from a Tortex to a nylon. You'll notice the different tone right away. Also, about the saddles, I had a hard time with my tele. I spent about three months tweaking it because the sound wasn't right after changing my steel saddles for intonable brass ones.
All along, I thought I had set it up wrong, when it finally dawned on me that I preffered the sound of steel saddles over the brass units.
Try going from a Tortex to a nylon. You'll notice the different tone right away. Also, about the saddles, I had a hard time with my tele. I spent about three months tweaking it because the sound wasn't right after changing my steel saddles for intonable brass ones.
All along, I thought I had set it up wrong, when it finally dawned on me that I preffered the sound of steel saddles over the brass units.
Re: Pickups in general
patience is a virtue my friend
yes, youll find that almost everyone here can hear the difference between pups. its true that some people cant hear the difference, those people probably couldnt tell good tone if it bit them in the ear and since they cant hear the difference then they shouldnt worry about it.
if a $100 guitar looks like a $1000 guitar how obvious is it that one is better than the other. to the untrained eye a squier strat looks just like an american fender. if you are a guitar player then you can probably tell the difference in feel, playability, and tone. some guitar players can tell the difference between mim and mia strats, others can tell that one mia is better than another. others wont even play an off the shelf fender unless its a custom shop variety.
ive been playing for 15 years and have many guitars. some are old, some arent, some were more expensive than others. i have guitars that ive spent less than $500 on (including all add ons and upgrades) that play and sound fantastic. you dont need to spend lots of money to get great tone.
if you can hear the difference between 11's and 10's then im 100% positive that you can hear the difference in pups if you tried.
your style of playing and voice on the instrument has lots to do with how you sound but to play your best you need equipment that you feel comfortable with
patience is a virtue my friend
yes, youll find that almost everyone here can hear the difference between pups. its true that some people cant hear the difference, those people probably couldnt tell good tone if it bit them in the ear and since they cant hear the difference then they shouldnt worry about it.
if a $100 guitar looks like a $1000 guitar how obvious is it that one is better than the other. to the untrained eye a squier strat looks just like an american fender. if you are a guitar player then you can probably tell the difference in feel, playability, and tone. some guitar players can tell the difference between mim and mia strats, others can tell that one mia is better than another. others wont even play an off the shelf fender unless its a custom shop variety.
ive been playing for 15 years and have many guitars. some are old, some arent, some were more expensive than others. i have guitars that ive spent less than $500 on (including all add ons and upgrades) that play and sound fantastic. you dont need to spend lots of money to get great tone.
if you can hear the difference between 11's and 10's then im 100% positive that you can hear the difference in pups if you tried.
your style of playing and voice on the instrument has lots to do with how you sound but to play your best you need equipment that you feel comfortable with
Imp
New member
Re: Pickups in general
i love pretty wood. sorry, its the way i am. im as much a collector as i am a player, and if it means hoarding MIJ boss pedals while i live off pasta at uni, so be it :laugh2:
plus the fact, my rig is the one i find most comfortable for writing, everything i own has inspired me at some point. if everyone was cool with playing other people's music, nothing would ever get written
tom
i love pretty wood. sorry, its the way i am. im as much a collector as i am a player, and if it means hoarding MIJ boss pedals while i live off pasta at uni, so be it :laugh2:
plus the fact, my rig is the one i find most comfortable for writing, everything i own has inspired me at some point. if everyone was cool with playing other people's music, nothing would ever get written
tom
tone4days
Heel Whacker
Re: Pickups in general
yeah starchild, its pretty funny how once you really learn how to listen critically, you can tell the difference ... even more so if it is your hands making the sound as you are listening for the differences
you touch on an interesting point that i somewhat agree with ... namely, that after a point, it becomes very hard to tell the difference between two improved sounds, ESPECIALLY for the price involved ... for example, i bet i would be very hard pressed to hear a huge difference between a set of seths and a set of ants, let alone the differnce between them and a hand wound set of Lollars of WCRs or whatever other boutique pickup brand ... and even if i could detect a shade of differnce between these and something from the SD catalogue right off the production floor, my wallet would feel the difference !! ... and i've mentioned on here before that i cannot hear the difference between a feitenized guitar and a standard intonated ... but some can ... and it's all good
'tone in the hands' opens a can of worms about semantics (what is tone? what is style? what is timbre? etc ..) ... given that two guys playing the same rig make it sound different, the hands clearly play a part ... and given that the same guy playing different rigs sounds different (even if easily identifiable), clearly there is interaction ...
but having played alot of pickups in alot of guitars ... i can assure you that a pickup is not a pickup is not a pickup ...
t4d
yeah starchild, its pretty funny how once you really learn how to listen critically, you can tell the difference ... even more so if it is your hands making the sound as you are listening for the differences
you touch on an interesting point that i somewhat agree with ... namely, that after a point, it becomes very hard to tell the difference between two improved sounds, ESPECIALLY for the price involved ... for example, i bet i would be very hard pressed to hear a huge difference between a set of seths and a set of ants, let alone the differnce between them and a hand wound set of Lollars of WCRs or whatever other boutique pickup brand ... and even if i could detect a shade of differnce between these and something from the SD catalogue right off the production floor, my wallet would feel the difference !! ... and i've mentioned on here before that i cannot hear the difference between a feitenized guitar and a standard intonated ... but some can ... and it's all good
'tone in the hands' opens a can of worms about semantics (what is tone? what is style? what is timbre? etc ..) ... given that two guys playing the same rig make it sound different, the hands clearly play a part ... and given that the same guy playing different rigs sounds different (even if easily identifiable), clearly there is interaction ...
but having played alot of pickups in alot of guitars ... i can assure you that a pickup is not a pickup is not a pickup ...
t4d
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Re: Pickups in general
Starchild
You bring up one issue that has to be considered first--preparation, ie how much practice are we getting, what have we learned and how fast are we growing?
When I get into a pup comparison, I'm assuming that the others have considerable experience. Otherwise they not only can't hear the differnces, they also won't be able to take advanatge of them, and at some level it doesn't matter what they are playing-
I've been playing pro and semi pro for almost 30 years, but once a week or so I get together with a buddy where it would be downright stupid to ask what pup is he using-He has always remained light years beyond anything I've ever done- I can put him on my 78 peice of junk strat copy and a magic stomp run into a stereo and he's still going to blow me out of the water-
His technique is so good that he can get practically any sound out of anything- That 78 strat copy really sounds nothign like a tele, but when he goes chicken picking with 3 harmonies, it sounds more tele like than anything I've every done- And when he crunches that same piece of junk, he has sounded more gilmore than gilmore has ever sounded-
Long story short, technique, theory, disapline, chops, even reading comes first (depending upon what you do for a living) and has the most impact overall- But once you are in the ballpark, the differnce in a stock dimarzio and a JB isn't just obvious..it can turn an otherwise dificult gig into an inspired experience-
Hope this helps
Starchild
You bring up one issue that has to be considered first--preparation, ie how much practice are we getting, what have we learned and how fast are we growing?
When I get into a pup comparison, I'm assuming that the others have considerable experience. Otherwise they not only can't hear the differnces, they also won't be able to take advanatge of them, and at some level it doesn't matter what they are playing-
I've been playing pro and semi pro for almost 30 years, but once a week or so I get together with a buddy where it would be downright stupid to ask what pup is he using-He has always remained light years beyond anything I've ever done- I can put him on my 78 peice of junk strat copy and a magic stomp run into a stereo and he's still going to blow me out of the water-
His technique is so good that he can get practically any sound out of anything- That 78 strat copy really sounds nothign like a tele, but when he goes chicken picking with 3 harmonies, it sounds more tele like than anything I've every done- And when he crunches that same piece of junk, he has sounded more gilmore than gilmore has ever sounded-
Long story short, technique, theory, disapline, chops, even reading comes first (depending upon what you do for a living) and has the most impact overall- But once you are in the ballpark, the differnce in a stock dimarzio and a JB isn't just obvious..it can turn an otherwise dificult gig into an inspired experience-
Hope this helps
Luke Duke
PRSlustologist
Re: Pickups in general
Hey man, welcome to the forum!
First let me say that just because you don't get an immediate answer does not mean NO ONE will answer, sometimes (days/or weeks) the forum moves slow, and you just have to be patient. Also, is there for the negativity, or sarcasm you had in the second line? We don't treat new guys like idiots here so don't think it is some initiation nonsense...just a slow day...don't take it personally.
All that said.....I agree with T4D, you must learn to listen critically. The differences are there, and if you have decent computer speakers you'll hear that the differences are HUGE. If you have decent ears you'll be able to tell very easily. Pickup construction, matters....a whole lot. A2, A3, A4, A5 and Ceramic magnets all have a bearing on tone, as does amount of winds, wire gauge, baseplate material, and screw type. These little things add up.
First I'll say I have a lot of nice gear, and it enhances my tone significantly. The thing is that when I play through my buddies SS rogue 1x8 15 watt practice amp I still have the same style and technique. Cheap pups are just that...cheap. They don't handle modification, or cover removal, and usually have very un-pleasing frequency curves.
starchild said:
Hey man, welcome to the forum!
First let me say that just because you don't get an immediate answer does not mean NO ONE will answer, sometimes (days/or weeks) the forum moves slow, and you just have to be patient. Also, is there for the negativity, or sarcasm you had in the second line? We don't treat new guys like idiots here so don't think it is some initiation nonsense...just a slow day...don't take it personally.
All that said.....I agree with T4D, you must learn to listen critically. The differences are there, and if you have decent computer speakers you'll hear that the differences are HUGE. If you have decent ears you'll be able to tell very easily. Pickup construction, matters....a whole lot. A2, A3, A4, A5 and Ceramic magnets all have a bearing on tone, as does amount of winds, wire gauge, baseplate material, and screw type. These little things add up.
First I'll say I have a lot of nice gear, and it enhances my tone significantly. The thing is that when I play through my buddies SS rogue 1x8 15 watt practice amp I still have the same style and technique. Cheap pups are just that...cheap. They don't handle modification, or cover removal, and usually have very un-pleasing frequency curves.
Re: Pickups in general
Well, I have been impatient. Sorry about that. One thing I forgot to mention is that I do believe in quality pickups and other parts. I'm trying to put an SH-5 in a guitar right now. Just wanted to see what everybody's feeling was on this. I know non-guitar players that understand these things and think a little differently about them. Sort of expressing some of their views with this thread. No disrespect or anything.
Well, I have been impatient. Sorry about that. One thing I forgot to mention is that I do believe in quality pickups and other parts. I'm trying to put an SH-5 in a guitar right now. Just wanted to see what everybody's feeling was on this. I know non-guitar players that understand these things and think a little differently about them. Sort of expressing some of their views with this thread. No disrespect or anything.
tone4days
Heel Whacker
Re: Pickups in general
i forgot to mention this in my post ... do not make assessments of pickup's tone from mp3s (or rough equivalent) played through typical computer speakers ...
you gotta hear em live through a guitar rig to really 'get' it ... i first listened to damn near EVERY humbucker soundclip before deciding ... couldnt tell much of a difference and CERTAINLY not enough to be able to gauge them in a 'real life' setting ... hearing them in MY guitar through MY amp played with MY fingers REALLY brought out the differences ... even the uber cool SD pickup CDs played through a reasonably good home stereo dont REALLY bring out the differences that you'll hear playing live .. they DO represent the best of what they'll sound like recorded though
good luck,
t4d
Luke Duke said:
i forgot to mention this in my post ... do not make assessments of pickup's tone from mp3s (or rough equivalent) played through typical computer speakers ...
you gotta hear em live through a guitar rig to really 'get' it ... i first listened to damn near EVERY humbucker soundclip before deciding ... couldnt tell much of a difference and CERTAINLY not enough to be able to gauge them in a 'real life' setting ... hearing them in MY guitar through MY amp played with MY fingers REALLY brought out the differences ... even the uber cool SD pickup CDs played through a reasonably good home stereo dont REALLY bring out the differences that you'll hear playing live .. they DO represent the best of what they'll sound like recorded though
good luck,
t4d
Re: Pickups in general
So nobody just blasts and works with feeling? I mean damn man. Honestly if you put the same electronics and setup in an alder strat (anybody play those around here?) and in a poplar strat you could tell? If so, tell me the difference in tonal flavors. < Kidding. I wish this were really a test. I think I'd catch some of you dudes...
So nobody just blasts and works with feeling? I mean damn man. Honestly if you put the same electronics and setup in an alder strat (anybody play those around here?) and in a poplar strat you could tell? If so, tell me the difference in tonal flavors. < Kidding. I wish this were really a test. I think I'd catch some of you dudes...
Re: Pickups in general
Believe me, there are times I wish I could NOT tell a difference in pickups, amps, picks, strings, etc. It would have saved me a lot of money over they years.
The more you are exposed to various gear, the more you begin to appreciate the subtle differences ( as much as what's the same ) each has. Finding what works for you is the key. Sometimes it comes full circle and you figure out the less expensive stock items work best for you. Listen with your ears.
Believe me, there are times I wish I could NOT tell a difference in pickups, amps, picks, strings, etc. It would have saved me a lot of money over they years.
The more you are exposed to various gear, the more you begin to appreciate the subtle differences ( as much as what's the same ) each has. Finding what works for you is the key. Sometimes it comes full circle and you figure out the less expensive stock items work best for you. Listen with your ears.
tone4days
Heel Whacker
Re: Pickups in general
sad if you can't see it or havent experienced it
t4d
i am curious as to what leads you to that leap in logic ... why do you connect being able to detect sonic differences with 'not blasting' and 'working with feeling'? ... only in the most limited of imaginations are they connected. ... in fact, the ability to appreciate nuance in tonal characteristics typically provides a starting point from which to express more finely nuanced emotions across a vastly wider spectrum ...starchild said:
sad if you can't see it or havent experienced it
t4d
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Pickups in general
Starchild:
Try this idea:
1) Put a Jazz neck model in the bridge position of your guitar and play it...
2) Then pull out the Jazz and put an Invader in the bridge position of your guitar and play it...
If you can't tell the difference between the two, then you are just plain deaf.
Your idea about the poplar vs. alder Strat is pointless -- you could take two guitars of the exact same model made of the exact same kind of wood and they would sound and feel very different from each other. You could also take an alder Strat and a poplar Strat and they might sound very much alike. Every piece of wood is different. You might as well say isn't it the case that the bottom line is a human is a human is a human. But we all very different personalities...and so does every piece of wood.
Starchild:
Try this idea:
1) Put a Jazz neck model in the bridge position of your guitar and play it...
2) Then pull out the Jazz and put an Invader in the bridge position of your guitar and play it...
If you can't tell the difference between the two, then you are just plain deaf.
Your idea about the poplar vs. alder Strat is pointless -- you could take two guitars of the exact same model made of the exact same kind of wood and they would sound and feel very different from each other. You could also take an alder Strat and a poplar Strat and they might sound very much alike. Every piece of wood is different. You might as well say isn't it the case that the bottom line is a human is a human is a human. But we all very different personalities...and so does every piece of wood.
Re: Pickups in general
Holy sh!t. "..a vastly wider spectrum.."? I'm basically saying that it has to be more simple than that. Note selection and feeling go much further than 5 tons of reverb and 37 rack effects. It should be from inside instead of from some pre-detirmined sound that some eletrical engineer came up with. Use effects if that's what does it for you, but don't waste your money cause you can't play like you want to. That's all.
Holy sh!t. "..a vastly wider spectrum.."? I'm basically saying that it has to be more simple than that. Note selection and feeling go much further than 5 tons of reverb and 37 rack effects. It should be from inside instead of from some pre-detirmined sound that some eletrical engineer came up with. Use effects if that's what does it for you, but don't waste your money cause you can't play like you want to. That's all.
Re: Pickups in general
Uhh... To the original poster....
Have you ever changed pickups? Like changed from a very muddy and crappy pickup to an ultra sharpe and percise pickup *Cough*EMG-81*cough* and not noticed a difference?
Well if you haven't than maybe you have hearing problems, but theres a MASSIVE difference, even a greater difference than wood and bridge componets. Well to my ears anyway, it changes the entire guitar to my fingers also.
Uhh... To the original poster....
Have you ever changed pickups? Like changed from a very muddy and crappy pickup to an ultra sharpe and percise pickup *Cough*EMG-81*cough* and not noticed a difference?
Well if you haven't than maybe you have hearing problems, but theres a MASSIVE difference, even a greater difference than wood and bridge componets. Well to my ears anyway, it changes the entire guitar to my fingers also.
Re: Pickups in general
"Your idea about the poplar vs. alder Strat is pointless -- you could take two guitars of the exact same model made of the exact same kind of wood and they would sound and feel very different from each other. You could also take an alder Strat and a poplar Strat and they might sound very much alike. Every piece of wood is different. You might as well say isn't it the case that the bottom line is a human is a human is a human. But we all very different personalities...and so does every piece of wood."
Dude, gimme a break. My point is that no amount of super musically-trained humans could tell the difference between poplar and alder strats if they were set up the same. Its wood. Not alnico and ceramic. If you boys wanna sit here and b!tch about the fact that you think your ear can tell the difference in origin and density of a peice of matter by the way it makes the strings sound when you don't even touch it, then be my guest. Can I be batman, too?
"Your idea about the poplar vs. alder Strat is pointless -- you could take two guitars of the exact same model made of the exact same kind of wood and they would sound and feel very different from each other. You could also take an alder Strat and a poplar Strat and they might sound very much alike. Every piece of wood is different. You might as well say isn't it the case that the bottom line is a human is a human is a human. But we all very different personalities...and so does every piece of wood."
Dude, gimme a break. My point is that no amount of super musically-trained humans could tell the difference between poplar and alder strats if they were set up the same. Its wood. Not alnico and ceramic. If you boys wanna sit here and b!tch about the fact that you think your ear can tell the difference in origin and density of a peice of matter by the way it makes the strings sound when you don't even touch it, then be my guest. Can I be batman, too?
