Pickups out of phase in middle position. Swapping wires doesn't fix it? How?

[Brian Hunsaker]

Ok, I have a Dimarzio Air Norton in the Neck of my S470, and a Duncan Full Shred in the bridge. There is a single coil in the middle, but I had the 5-way selector wired to only act on the humbuckers. The middle pickup is heard only when you pull up the volume knob, and then it's mixed in with whatever other sounds you have selected on the 5-way in parallel.

So position 2 & 4 are single coil sounds from different humbuckers, and position 3 is one coil from each humbucker. However when I got it back from the shop, I noticed that position 3 is not humbucking. It makes just as much noise as 2 & 4. I tried switching the solder points of the red & green wires from the Dimarzio. This still did not make it humbucking. How is this possible? How can I make the middle position humbucking?

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Re: Pickups out of phase in middle position. Swapping wires doesn't fix it? How?

Sounds like you need to swap which coil is used on one humbucker in the middle position.

 

[super rad stuff]

Re: Pickups out of phase in middle position. Swapping wires doesn't fix it? How?

well think of it this way.... you could switch one of the humbuckers to cut to a different coil. in doing this, you'll get a humbucking position 3, but lose the humbucking ability in either position 2 or 4. so depending on whichever two positions you like best, you should wire it up to keep those two that way.

 

[Brian Hunsaker]

Re: Pickups out of phase in middle position. Swapping wires doesn't fix it? How?

Sounds like you need to swap which coil is used on one humbucker in the middle position.

I'm under the impression that switching the green & red wires did that? If not, then how do I do it?

 

[Brian Hunsaker]

Re: Pickups out of phase in middle position. Swapping wires doesn't fix it? How?

well think of it this way.... you could switch one of the humbuckers to cut to a different coil. in doing this, you'll get a humbucking position 3, but lose the humbucking ability in either position 2 or 4. so depending on whichever two positions you like best, you should wire it up to keep those two that way.

positions 2 & 4 are only a single coil sound, so they are not meant to be humbucking...am I confused or are you? Positions 1 & 5 are humbucking sounds, and position 3 is supposed to be, but is not currently.

 

[super rad stuff]

Re: Pickups out of phase in middle position. Swapping wires doesn't fix it? How?

*whoops* nevermind i thought i read what you posted correctly but didn't:dunce:

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Pickups out of phase in middle position. Swapping wires doesn't fix it? How?

Are you following DiMarzio's color scheme for the A.N. or Duncan's?
I thought Dimzo's pairings were red+green and black+white, with red being the counterpart to Duncan's black (main hot).

If red and green are the start and finish of the same coil, wouldn't swapping them out make no difference?

 

[dr. ad]

Re: Pickups out of phase in middle position. Swapping wires doesn't fix it? How?

if i'm reading this right, the middle humbucker is using 2 coils of the same wind and polarity ie not opposite wind and polarity which cancels hum. can you confirm which wire pairs are currently getting switched to ground in positions 2 and 4?
assuming that position 4 single-coil sound is coming from the red+white wires being switched to ground... you should be able to fix this by using green as hot for the bridge and the rest going to ground in positions 3 and 4.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Pickups out of phase in middle position. Swapping wires doesn't fix it? How?

From his description, it's an H-S-H setup with a SuperSwitch controlling the hums and a push/pull to activate the middle single.

Apparently he has the SuperSwitch wired for
1 Bridge full
2 Bridge split
3 Both split in series together (seems to be going for the North coil of one and the South coil of the other)
4 Neck split
5 Neck full

Other than that, it sounds like what you've said about using the same coil from each hum (both North or both South).

 

[Brian Hunsaker]

Re: Pickups out of phase in middle position. Swapping wires doesn't fix it? How?

Are you following DiMarzio's color scheme for the A.N. or Duncan's?
I thought Dimzo's pairings were red+green and black+white, with red being the counterpart to Duncan's black (main hot).

If red and green are the start and finish of the same coil, wouldn't swapping them out make no difference?

I had it installed by the premier guy in the area that does all the big pro bands. I'm pretty sure he used the Dimarzio wiring for the Dimarzio pickup. But I can tell you which wires are soldered where for that pickup when I get home.

You are right about the superswitch sounds for the 5 positions.

I just got off the phone with the repair shop guy, and he said that it's usually not possible to achieve a humbucking sound when using 1 coil from 2 pickups of different make (Dimarzio + Duncan is mine). Is he right? Or is there a way to do this? I like my pickups and don't really want to replace either of them. But I will if it's the only way.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Pickups out of phase in middle position. Swapping wires doesn't fix it? How?

Coil Swap wiring should give you humbucking, at least from what I've read here.

However, I'm not into the particulars of it, so I don't know if one pickup has to be reverse polarity of the other. Seems to me you should just be able to use the North coil of one and the South coil of the other and have humbucking.

But, if you've already got the SS set up for splits on 2 and 4, because those are manually wired connections, you'll have to find a way to separate them from each other to get them both on position 3.

 

[Southbound Suarez]

Re: Pickups out of phase in middle position. Swapping wires doesn't fix it? How?

Repolarize one of the pickups DiMarzio or Duncan, you name it. Most likely one pup is wound and polarized North going South and the other pup is wound and polarized South going North. Contact Maricella Juarez (MJ) at the Seymour Duncan Custom Shop, she can do the repolarization of one of the HB's to match with the other one.

 

[Brian Hunsaker]

Re: Pickups out of phase in middle position. Swapping wires doesn't fix it? How?

Repolarize one of the pickups DiMarzio or Duncan, you name it. Most likely one pup is wound and polarized North going South and the other pup is wound and polarized South going North. Contact Maricella Juarez (MJ) at the Seymour Duncan Custom Shop, she can do the repolarization of one of the HB's to match with the other one.

Repolarize...is that the same as pulling out the magnet and flipping it?

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Pickups out of phase in middle position. Swapping wires doesn't fix it? How?

Which wiring method are you using for the humbuckers?

 

[Brian Hunsaker]

Re: Pickups out of phase in middle position. Swapping wires doesn't fix it? How?

DrNewcenstein, I will have a look when I get home tonight and let you know.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Pickups out of phase in middle position. Swapping wires doesn't fix it? How?

Either way, if you've got 2 wires from either/both pickups committed to a connection (switch or ground) you can't also have them running to the middle switch connection.

You'll have to add in a push/pull option to select between routing them to the 2 and 4 (or ground) or to the middle, which means flipping the 5-way and working the push/pull.


Unless one of the wiring wizards like Hermetico has a better idea?

 

[Brian Hunsaker]

Re: Pickups out of phase in middle position. Swapping wires doesn't fix it? How?

Either way, if you've got 2 wires from either/both pickups committed to a connection (switch or ground) you can't also have them running to the middle switch connection.

You'll have to add in a push/pull option to select between routing them to the 2 and 4 (or ground) or to the middle, which means flipping the 5-way and working the push/pull.

There isn't room in this guitar for a 2nd push-pull pot. The body is too thin (Ibanez S). I can tell you all 5 positions are working and have the correct coils active. From rear to front:

1) Bridge PU both coils.
2) Bridge PU North coil.
3) Bridge PU North coil + Neck PU South coil.
4) Neck PU South coil.
5) Neck PU both coils.

Are you saying this is not possible to be working the way it is? The only thing that's wrong with it is the HUM on position 3. I'm still going to see if my wiring matches one of your diagrams in a couple hours. I'll let you know.

 

[Brian Hunsaker]

Re: Pickups out of phase in middle position. Swapping wires doesn't fix it? How?

Ok, here's my diagram of how it is. I put it back to the way it was from the repair shop (unswitched the red / green on the neck pickup). I wasn't sure what to make of the "to knobs" arrow, but the actual switch for the superswitch is located just to the right of the "switch connections" part of the diagram. Any ideas?

 

[Southbound Suarez]

Re: Pickups out of phase in middle position. Swapping wires doesn't fix it? How?

Repolarize...is that the same as pulling out the magnet and flipping it?

Ask Maricella Juarez (MJ) in the Seymour Duncan Custom Shop. In another thread, I mentioned that I once had a lefty Fender American Tele with a SD 54' Tele Bridge pup, and the original Fender American Std. Tele Neck pup. They both sounded great individuallly, and you could tell that they would be a good match for one another with great balance, but there was this thin out of phase issue with the middle 3-way position switch. MJ explained to me that SD wound (let's say North going South) and Fender wound (lets say South going North) and by simply remagnetizing the magnet polarity of, in this case the Fender American Std. Tele Neck pup, then my problem would be permanently solved. AND it only cost me $5.00 at the time to have her do it. I was right, the Fender Tele Neck pup and the SD 54' Tele Bridge pup worked quite well together after I got the Fender Tele Neck pup back from MJ, and it was a cheap fix too.

 

[Brian Hunsaker]

Re: Pickups out of phase in middle position. Swapping wires doesn't fix it? How?

Ask Maricella Juarez (MJ) in the Seymour Duncan Custom Shop. In another thread, I mentioned that I once had a lefty Fender American Tele with a SD 54' Tele Bridge pup, and the original American Tele Neck pup. They both sounded great individuallly, and you could tell that they would be a good match for one another with great balance but there was the thin out of phase issue. MJ explained to me that SD wound (let's say North going South) and Fender wound (lets say South going North) and by simply remagnetizing the magnet polarity of in this case the Fender American Std. Tele Neck pup, then my problem would be solved. AND it only cost me $5.00 at the time to have her do it. I was right, the Fender Tele Neck pup and the SD 54' Tele Bridge pup worked quite well together after I got the Fender Tele Neck pup back from MJ.

I would love to contact her....how do I do that? Where's contact info for the custom shop?