PIO tone caps for antiquity JB jazz set

Mikelamury

Mikelamury

New member
I'm about to install the antiquity JB jazz set in my gibson les paul special and I'm using Sprague vitamin Q PIO tone caps, I am putting the usual (recommended) .022uf on the bridge and was wondering if I should put the same on the neck or should I go with a .015uf for the neck as I have read this is a popular mod and the neck pickup is the one that I turn down. Any thoughts from you guys would be helpful.
 
I like smaller caps. You can go as small as 6.8nf. Past that and it only rounds highs and sounds similar to turning down the volume.
 
I honestly can't hear differences in cap material. But values I can hear. Personally, I like the higher value in both neck and bridge. They are pretty cheap, so it is worth experimenting. I use my tone controls all the time, yet I still like the higher value.
 
There’s absolutely no difference in capacitors as long as the value is the same. You’re just wasting money.

Here’s proof... can you tell a PIO cap from a ceramic?

(Also notice when the tone control is on 10 you can’t hear the cap. He proved that by using a paper clip!)

https://youtu.be/817JHiYV_Po


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Thanks for the video, concerning the other reply, I'm getting these vitamin Q capacitors at half the price of orange drops so I don't think I'm wasting money quite the contrary!

I could hear slight differences in the tone with the different cap material not a huge difference but a difference.
 
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There's no audible difference between cap materials if the value of the cap is the same (but you need to measure the actual value of the cap, as two .022 capacitors will not often be equal in value). That said, if it makes you happy knock yourself out.

As far as value going where, I've found that I like a bigger value on the neck than on the bridge. Usually with the bridge I just want to knock a little off the high end. The neck sometimes I want to have a darker tone for jazzy stuff.
 
How do you use tone controls? Set and forget, or are you constantly moving them? I tend to go for pretty dark sounds as it turns down.
 
Cap value changes the corner frequency of the roll-off but not the amount of the roll-off. So I would pick the value based on the high-pass frequency I want the tone to roll off at.
 
Cap material is polarising. If you want the absolute results, then oscilloscope readings do show minor variances in the tone between materials (with the PIO being more rounded in the top end area), and tests from the old SD employee Frank Falbo on pickups have shown even minor 1-2db differences can be audible - if the circumstances are right......

but, it would be a fairly rare scenario for all the starts to align.

I almost always put in PIO, but thats just me......you can get cheap Russian K40Y caps in bulk cheaper than I can get orange drops locally (my other choice). I tend to stick away from the basic metal film ones you see OEM.

In the bridge I go for anything from .022 to .068, and .001 to .015 in the neck - but that depends on the guitar and pickup type. I never use the neck tone, so I want to try and make the highs come through as much as possible.

I tend to play with values over time.....tweaking the value to match just how that guitar plays. So my advice after all of this is to get a range of values and experiment. And that goes for pot values too. If you have separate pickup controls you can tweak them for pickup position too.
 
Mincer said:
How do you use tone controls? Set and forget, or are you constantly moving them? I tend to go for pretty dark sounds as it turns down.
Click to expand...

I usually just set my tone controls for each song and leave it alone til the next song if it needs changing.
 
While it is fun to experiment for yourself, there are other aspects of a guitar rig that will affect the sound a whole lot more. After initial experimentation, I decided to concentrate on those other things (cables, tubes, speakers, etc).
 
This guy does a good job with his test. Skip to 7:40 where you can tell a difference even over the recording. The pos Epiphone one clearly sounds the worst. That's why I decided to start specifying my cap materials, I wasn't sure I was happy with the cheap kind. I tried the most common types - orange drop and pio - and ended up being happy with them. I can recognize the character of each material as well. It's the same across values.

 
DavidRavenMoon said:
There’s absolutely no difference in capacitors as long as the value is the same. You’re just wasting money.

Here’s proof... can you tell a PIO cap from a ceramic?

(Also notice when the tone control is on 10 you can’t hear the cap. He proved that by using a paper clip!)

https://youtu.be/817JHiYV_Po


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

If you read the lines carefully you see that he was not sure. The thing on 10 is some people they hear it on 10, which is clearly bogus. For me its more of a different kind of note attack than with ceramics. But surely not worth the money they ask for pio caps.
 
I'd say it depends on what you want from the neck tone knob and how you use it.

If you don't need super dark & want the full range of the knob to be useful, .022uF or .015uF occupy the middle ground.
If you only want to roll off the highest highs and smooth things out, a very low value cap is the ticket (IME more useful on bridge hums).
If you just want a fairly warm tone and only use the upper range of the knob, .047 has long been the accepted standard with humbuckers.
And if you want to be able to tweak your tone with a small twist - or sometimes to go really dark - 0.1uF can do that for you.

I concur with others here that it's absolutely worth buying a few values and trying them out to see what works for you personally.
Results vary for different guitars and different pickups. And not everybody's idea of dark is the same.

PS: IMO you shouldn't ever pay more than a few dollars for a capacitor unless you're restoring a vintage instrument.
You can get perfectly effective ceramics for pennies apiece to experiment with, then get better types if you want.
 
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