please explain high gain

[jerryjg]

Are the , like , TRiaxis Mesa amps triple rectifiers? Is that how all high gain amps get thier sound-by dul and triple recitifiers.Is the bogner Uber/extasy also a triple rectifier amp?What about others-Krank, VHT, Diezl etc? How do tey get their "high gain"
Im a guy of many amps, but a high gain amp isnt one of them, and Im very curious indeed.

Also, What kind of pedal in front of a clean tube amp will get me closest to a high gain amplifier.
I saw a "Rocktron Zombie" for less than 60 bucks that says it has high gain type recitification.
Any other suggestions for a uber high gain pedal that sounds sort of like a Mesa triple or a Bogner extasy or something along that line?

 

[Binnerscot]

Re: please explain high gain

LOL...what prompted this!?

 

[J Moose]

Re: please explain high gain

The amount of gain in the amp has nothing at all to do with the type of rectifier. Not a single thing. Those Boogies were really one of the first amps to have a ludicrous amount of front-end preamp gain in a stock head. The switchable rectifier on those affected the feel, response & headroom of the amp. They set such a standard though that these days "rectifier distortion" is a term used kinda like Kleenex...

It's all about preamp gain staging. I'd think that any of the high gain "metal" pedals would give you a fair taste... anything from a Metal Zone to the Twin Tube Mayhem... which I'd really like to try.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: please explain high gain

Jerry, get ahold of an old Peavey Rockmaster preamp, or an ADA MP-1.

 

[3th3r]

Re: please explain high gain

High-Gain does not strictly mean high distortion, as is commonly misconceived. High-gain means high amplification factor, which means that a small signal (from your guitar) is highly amplified (by a series of tubes, a.k.a. valves). There are high gain amps that are designed to sound very clean and very loud, such as the classic Hiwatts.

When a signal is high enough to overdrive the next tube stage beyond what it was intended to be, it clips the signal, and you get the distorted sound. If you overdrive the next tube stage, the signal will be even more clipped, and there will be more distortion, and so on, until you get the buzzsaw sound metallers love.

The rectifier has to do with the power supply. It turns AC current from your wall into DC current that the tubes need. Tubes cannot use AC current (except for the heater elements, but that's another topic).

 

[Petrovsk Mizinski]

Re: please explain high gain

3th3r is indeed right. You can have a highly distorted tone that is still not strictly high gain, but have a high gain tone that is fairly "clean" sounding as such.
Mesa Rectifiers pack an awesome punch for rhythm, more than enough gain for any rhythm part, but for solos you would need a boost especially if your wanting to play very smooth legato (being Australian, I've never heard the Mark IV except for when Dream Theater came to Melbourne, so can't comment much there, except it obviously has a much different and IMO better voicing)
To my ears, Krank sounds so thin and weedy, and seemed to be way to resistant to lead playing and there is suspicions some of (if that makes sense).
There is a certain voicing to high gain amps that aren't in well.. non high gain amps. It's something you know when you hear it but I can't properly explain it words though.

 

[jerryjg]

Re: please explain high gain

Jerry, get ahold of an old Peavey Rockmaster preamp, or an ADA MP-1.

. Thanks for the suggestion.Ive got a Rockmaster and
theres tons of gain, but im lookin' for insane. haha. Something like a bogner ina box if theres such a thing.

 

[3th3r]

Re: please explain high gain

Ah, well, in that case, you need this:



It does Hi Gain AND Insane!!

 

[DankStar]

Re: please explain high gain

I knew a guy that fried his brain using the insane setting!

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: please explain high gain

Just to clarify, the Dual Rectifier is a 100W amp, and it has switchable rectifiers, tube or solid state. When Mesa released a 150W amp, they used the name recognition and named it a Triple Rectifier, although it should still only have two rectifiers.

Is the Single Rectifier (50W) actually only tube rectifiction?

 

[RockStarNick]

Re: please explain high gain

Get a MI Audio Crunchbox. GREAT high gain pedal. Chunky.

 

[J Moose]

Re: please explain high gain

Is the Single Rectifier (50W) actually only tube rectifiction?

Solid state on those.

When I owned my '95 Dual Recto Solo head most of the time I had it set to "spongy" with the tube rectifier. There were switches on the back 'bold/spongy' for feel, and then the tube or solid state rectifier. Bold & solid state together, while being super articulate wasn't all that different then say a Valvestate or something. Sort of defeated the purpose of having 4 glowing bottles...

 

[formula73]

Re: please explain high gain

I never did figure out why people talked about rectifiers like they were in the signal path. Anyway, just to start a war, I never liked any of the Rectos: single, double, triple, whatever. I always thought they sounded mushy and without definition.

I had a MK3 that was pretty cool, though I sold it because I never could figure out how to use all the crap on it.

 

[Binnerscot]

Re: please explain high gain

. Thanks for the suggestion.Ive got a Rockmaster and
theres tons of gain, but im lookin' for insane. haha. Something like a bogner ina box if theres such a thing.

Honestly, the most pre-amp gain I have ever experienced is the Peavey Triple X. Far more gain than the Mesas and Bogners (its not like they are lacking any), more than the Rockmaster and Ultras.

 

[rashayritto]

Re: please explain high gain

Honestly, the most pre-amp gain I have ever experienced is the Peavey Triple X. Far more gain than the Mesas and Bogners (its not like they are lacking any), more than the Rockmaster and Ultras.

the xxx is a weired amp though. despite all that gain, its more inclined toward rock and old school shred than metal. at least that was my impression of it

 

[baritone]

Re: please explain high gain

For this sound out of pedals, try RockTron Zombie, EHx Metal Muff w/ Top Boost, or my favorite Boss MD-2. I have a few more, but these are the fun ones.

 

[J Moose]

Re: please explain high gain

Anyone try the Twin Tube Mayhem yet?!?

Thoughts there? Doesn't seem to be much about it out there...

I took a first place in the Gear Experts contest... gotta pick one of those Twin Tubes!

 

[MetalMike_II]

Re: please explain high gain

ahhhhh, this thread is a nice and comfy one

I never did figure out why people talked about rectifiers like they were in the signal path.

cuzza the different feel. but yer right, they're not
just to throw it out, some VHTs let you do the SS/tube recto switcheroo, too, in addition to Mesa

the xxx is a weired amp though. despite all that gain, its more inclined toward rock and old school shred than metal. at least that was my impression of it

my impression of it is full blown metal-metal (the very metal kind)
Pantera dials up easy as pie if it's what you want. But it's so underrated by folks, and it does do more than just brutals and Pantera. Rock, 80s, hair, lots. I concur that it is very different. It's also not the warmest amp.

Honestly, the most pre-amp gain I have ever experienced is the Peavey Triple X. Far more gain than the Mesas and Bogners (its not like they are lacking any), more than the Rockmaster and Ultras.

thank you. although, on the topic of "most gain" - a great topic in my book - up there with the XXX is an early model Ecstacy I owned for a long time, and (switching to the blasphemous world of solid state, cuz this metalhead is no purist) a Crate 20 watt stereo chorus I had regularly blew my head off, and actually, I think my Cube 60 absolutely kills. And of course it runs in the 5150 family too, not to mention my daydream amp, the 5150 III. But the XXX is a destroyer. I wouldn't mind having an Ubershall either, having tried one again recently. The first time I tried one with its matching cab I was flabbergasted. The second time was through some other cab and I didn't care for it and wondered if I'd hallucinated the first experience. Recently, through a G-Flex? Fudge me, right in the ear. Great grunting goodness fudgin gracious. Chunkitty funkitty flippitty flappin big bang boom. Yessiree-jim-bob-cat-tail, that was some nice shiitake.

Gosh, gain is great. Nothing like having lots of it. I like mine fuzzless and crispy.

 

[Dr.Mavashi]

Re: please explain high gain

Well the question I have, a lot of these amps sound to me like a mega-distortion pedals, sometimes I hear a messa player and it sounds like boss metal zone - i.e, clipped diode I guess, not a tube crunch. I prefer the sound of Engls to Messas as they are a bit more composed, and not so "fenderesque" voiced. VHT, Messa, Engl, Krank, and others, how many of them actually use diode clipping to get all that gain?

 

[Ascension]

Re: please explain high gain

My Fender Prosonics all are ultra high gain amps. They use a cascading gain and two gain controlls for the crunch channel. gain 1 is earlier in the path and more the actual crunch while gain 2 is later and adds more compression.
I love the high gain feel of somthing like the Prosonics or a TrainWreck. If designed properly a true high gain tube amp can be quite expressive and touch synsitive. If done wrong a mushy muddy mess!
If you want a Boogie in a box try picking up a used Boss MT-2 and drop in the Sustainiac mod from Monti Allums!! That is is the closest to my Prosonics tone I have ever heard in a box!
Here ya go on the Monti Mod MT-2 http://www.monteallums.com/pedal_mods.html#bossmt2