DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Pots and string gauge Q -- blueman and others
Last I heard BB King now uses 8s.
So much for the "man up" comment.
Last I heard BB King now uses 8s.
So much for the "man up" comment.
Pots and string gauge Q -- blueman and others
- Thread starter WoodyTone
- Start date
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Pots and string gauge Q -- blueman and others
He also sits throughout every gig. Should we do that also?
He also sits throughout every gig. Should we do that also?
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Pots and string gauge Q -- blueman and others
When you hit your 80's Zhang, you'll be sitting too, especially if you have diabetes.
When you hit your 80's Zhang, you'll be sitting too, especially if you have diabetes.
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Pots and string gauge Q -- blueman and others
I'm not putting him down, most of us won't even live that long, never mind be gigging regularly then. He can sit if he wants. It just seems strange to me that someone should suggest that the standard for "manning up" should be that of an 85-year old.
We can still stand all the way through a gig and we are not BB so would be laughed at if we didn't. We also don't have to play 8's.
I'm not putting him down, most of us won't even live that long, never mind be gigging regularly then. He can sit if he wants. It just seems strange to me that someone should suggest that the standard for "manning up" should be that of an 85-year old.
We can still stand all the way through a gig and we are not BB so would be laughed at if we didn't. We also don't have to play 8's.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Pots and string gauge Q -- blueman and others
Check out these early Fleetwood Mac videos on YouTube for some nice blues guitar, and some first rate bends & vibrato:
Under:
Danny Kirwan
- Like it this Way (studio) - Danny & Peter on solos
Tramp feat Danny Kirwan
- Hard work
Fleetwood Mac
- Like it this Way (live) - Danny & Peter on solos
- Blues with a Feeling - Danny on solo
- Stop Messin' Around - Peter on solo
- Watch Out - Peter on solo
- Black Magic Woman (live) - Peter most solos, Danny joins at end
Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac
- Green Manalishi - Peter on solo
Check out these early Fleetwood Mac videos on YouTube for some nice blues guitar, and some first rate bends & vibrato:
Under:
Danny Kirwan
- Like it this Way (studio) - Danny & Peter on solos
Tramp feat Danny Kirwan
- Hard work
Fleetwood Mac
- Like it this Way (live) - Danny & Peter on solos
- Blues with a Feeling - Danny on solo
- Stop Messin' Around - Peter on solo
- Watch Out - Peter on solo
- Black Magic Woman (live) - Peter most solos, Danny joins at end
Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac
- Green Manalishi - Peter on solo
Last edited:
dr. ad
MonkeyDungologist
Re: Pots and string gauge Q -- blueman and others
woodytone - have you adjusted pickup and pole heights as yet? and is all the wiring stock in your epi? the reason i ask is that i've found 11s seem to bring a lot of high-end along with the additional string mass, so this could work against what you're trying to do while also making your gui a lot less playable.
IMO P90s are both without doubt the most toneful and the noisiest p/ups ever, you may actually be losing some signal in the feedback/hum that could boslter your tone; have you considered shielding?
i'd suggest keeping your 9s (at least for now), putting some shielding in your soapbar covers and possibly adjusting your p/up heights a little closer while making sure your poles aren't too high; if nothing else this will provide more insight as to what pots/caps you decide to fit
woodytone - have you adjusted pickup and pole heights as yet? and is all the wiring stock in your epi? the reason i ask is that i've found 11s seem to bring a lot of high-end along with the additional string mass, so this could work against what you're trying to do while also making your gui a lot less playable.
IMO P90s are both without doubt the most toneful and the noisiest p/ups ever, you may actually be losing some signal in the feedback/hum that could boslter your tone; have you considered shielding?
i'd suggest keeping your 9s (at least for now), putting some shielding in your soapbar covers and possibly adjusting your p/up heights a little closer while making sure your poles aren't too high; if nothing else this will provide more insight as to what pots/caps you decide to fit
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Pots and string gauge Q -- blueman and others
+1. 9's do feel "slinkier." Good description.
P-90's are much better than mini-HB's. You can do a lot with twin mag swaps, and beef them up or brighten them any way you want. Not many choices with mini's, & I don't know if they take standard size magnets (2.5x.5x.125).
+1. 9's do feel "slinkier." Good description.
P-90's are much better than mini-HB's. You can do a lot with twin mag swaps, and beef them up or brighten them any way you want. Not many choices with mini's, & I don't know if they take standard size magnets (2.5x.5x.125).
Re: Pots and string gauge Q -- blueman and others
I have been down this road as well. I find that 10s are great for Gibsons with the shorter scale length, especially tuned down 1/2 step. I also use 10s on my Fenders, but I am always torn between them and 9s. 9s just feel right on a Fender at standard tuning. But one of the bands I play with tunes down, so I run 10s, and just tough it out when we are in standard tuning. As for being off by 1 fret live, anyone who would sit in live with a band and be tuned 1/2 step down from the other band members is nuts, or fancies themself a hero, and I frankly doubt that really happens at all. So that isn't a legit reason against tuning down. Bands that tune down 1/2 step, all tune down 1/2 step.
I experimented with strings heavier than 10s, and to my ears, the tone suffers. Too much mass, too thick for the length. Less musical to my ears. I play with some guys that hear it the other way round, but I don't. At some point, you are playing a rope!
I have been down this road as well. I find that 10s are great for Gibsons with the shorter scale length, especially tuned down 1/2 step. I also use 10s on my Fenders, but I am always torn between them and 9s. 9s just feel right on a Fender at standard tuning. But one of the bands I play with tunes down, so I run 10s, and just tough it out when we are in standard tuning. As for being off by 1 fret live, anyone who would sit in live with a band and be tuned 1/2 step down from the other band members is nuts, or fancies themself a hero, and I frankly doubt that really happens at all. So that isn't a legit reason against tuning down. Bands that tune down 1/2 step, all tune down 1/2 step.
I experimented with strings heavier than 10s, and to my ears, the tone suffers. Too much mass, too thick for the length. Less musical to my ears. I play with some guys that hear it the other way round, but I don't. At some point, you are playing a rope!
WoodyTone
New member
Re: Pots and string gauge Q -- blueman and others
The presumption than 10s sound better than 8s or 11s are better than 9 is like saying JBs sound better than Pearlys, LPs sound better than Strats, 6L6s better than El-34s, etc. Can't do it. It's all in the ears of the beholder. For me, with the P-90 guitar I have, 10s sound better -- for now. But in general I don't like the sound or feel of heavier strings as much as light ones. The low three strings especially sound flubby to me, and sometimes the G string. Some of the sound also has to do with how you pick, and I lose some of what I like to do there and how it sounds with heavier-gauge strings.
Thanks dr. ad. Shielding with alum foil per blueman or some other way? And what wiring -- the wires themselves? if so, yes. it's a Korean Epi -- are the wires crap?
The presumption than 10s sound better than 8s or 11s are better than 9 is like saying JBs sound better than Pearlys, LPs sound better than Strats, 6L6s better than El-34s, etc. Can't do it. It's all in the ears of the beholder. For me, with the P-90 guitar I have, 10s sound better -- for now. But in general I don't like the sound or feel of heavier strings as much as light ones. The low three strings especially sound flubby to me, and sometimes the G string. Some of the sound also has to do with how you pick, and I lose some of what I like to do there and how it sounds with heavier-gauge strings.
Thanks dr. ad. Shielding with alum foil per blueman or some other way? And what wiring -- the wires themselves? if so, yes. it's a Korean Epi -- are the wires crap?
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Pots and string gauge Q -- blueman and others
Yes, a rehearsed band is probably all in the same tuning, which is why if you like to sit in or jam on stage occasionally, you're better off having standard tuning. Less chance of being the odd man out. But this is from a blues perspective where sitting in is a common thing, along with standard tuning (with someone having open tuning for slide once in a while). For me, having thick strings & tuning down a fret is totally impractical. So yeah, it's a very big reason not to tune down. Don't know what you local guys do in other genres, but it don't work for blues.
Yes, a rehearsed band is probably all in the same tuning, which is why if you like to sit in or jam on stage occasionally, you're better off having standard tuning. Less chance of being the odd man out. But this is from a blues perspective where sitting in is a common thing, along with standard tuning (with someone having open tuning for slide once in a while). For me, having thick strings & tuning down a fret is totally impractical. So yeah, it's a very big reason not to tune down. Don't know what you local guys do in other genres, but it don't work for blues.
Re: Pots and string gauge Q -- blueman and others
im primarily a blues player (with wanky rock tendencys) but i keep one guitar tuned down a full step for vocal reasons. ive made the mistake of grabbing it on accident when going to a jam or sit in with a buddys band. its not horrible but it sure keeps you on your toes. i also play in weird keys alot so playing in f# minor wouldnt throw me
when you were talking about heavy strings "but you're also a candidate for premature arthritis. Knuckles weren't made for that abuse" ive played 11's to 13's all in std tuning basically since i started playing at 14 and like doing wild 2+ step bends and ive already started to have a little arthritis in a few fingers. nothing too bad but you make a valid point
im primarily a blues player (with wanky rock tendencys) but i keep one guitar tuned down a full step for vocal reasons. ive made the mistake of grabbing it on accident when going to a jam or sit in with a buddys band. its not horrible but it sure keeps you on your toes. i also play in weird keys alot so playing in f# minor wouldnt throw me
when you were talking about heavy strings "but you're also a candidate for premature arthritis. Knuckles weren't made for that abuse" ive played 11's to 13's all in std tuning basically since i started playing at 14 and like doing wild 2+ step bends and ive already started to have a little arthritis in a few fingers. nothing too bad but you make a valid point
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Pots and string gauge Q -- blueman and others
No gauge necessarily sounds better than another, but thicker gauge will give you thicker tone. I used to be an all-11's kinda guy but have found that individual guitars seem to prefer one gauge over another so I let the guitar choose. My raggedy Squier Tele seems to like 9/9.5's better than anything else so I don't argue with it. My LP Std likes 11's but my R9 likes 10's better, as does the Special. The Strat just constantly tells me "as big as you can stand it, sonny boy. If you think you can handle 15's, I know I can."
No gauge necessarily sounds better than another, but thicker gauge will give you thicker tone. I used to be an all-11's kinda guy but have found that individual guitars seem to prefer one gauge over another so I let the guitar choose. My raggedy Squier Tele seems to like 9/9.5's better than anything else so I don't argue with it. My LP Std likes 11's but my R9 likes 10's better, as does the Special. The Strat just constantly tells me "as big as you can stand it, sonny boy. If you think you can handle 15's, I know I can."
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Pots and string gauge Q -- blueman and others
So are you going to go to a lighter gauge & see if you can keep those fingers going longer?
So are you going to go to a lighter gauge & see if you can keep those fingers going longer?
Re: Pots and string gauge Q -- blueman and others
not yet, im not ready to admit defeat!!
i just pop an ibuprofen before the gig if its bothering me and it seems to work fine. im done with anything heavier than my custom 11 set though, except on my old guild which has 12 flats but thats short scale anyway. its werid when it decides to show up. i did four gigs and it didnt bother me at all. the weekend after i only played two and it was really bothering me the second day. it was colder and damp so i attribute it to that but who knows.
at some point ill probably try an ax with my old custom 10 set, 10-14-18-26-36-50 and see how that works out.
not yet, im not ready to admit defeat!!
i just pop an ibuprofen before the gig if its bothering me and it seems to work fine. im done with anything heavier than my custom 11 set though, except on my old guild which has 12 flats but thats short scale anyway. its werid when it decides to show up. i did four gigs and it didnt bother me at all. the weekend after i only played two and it was really bothering me the second day. it was colder and damp so i attribute it to that but who knows.
at some point ill probably try an ax with my old custom 10 set, 10-14-18-26-36-50 and see how that works out.
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Pots and string gauge Q -- blueman and others
Careful with that ibuprofen. I used to do it to calm down knee tendinitis and after a while it has the reverse effect.
Careful with that ibuprofen. I used to do it to calm down knee tendinitis and after a while it has the reverse effect.
Re: Pots and string gauge Q -- blueman and others
So to be clear, if you guys find yourselves at a jam, and happen to have brought a guitar that is 1/2 step out of everyone else, you'd rather jump around the neck all night keeping up (which you have already admitted is an issue) than just tune up half a step, because it too difficult to manage the added string pressure, relative to being in a completely different planet all night? I'm not judging, but those numbers don't add up to me. I'd prefer to just tune up 1/2 step and join the band. I don't know that I value bends more than everything else.
So to be clear, if you guys find yourselves at a jam, and happen to have brought a guitar that is 1/2 step out of everyone else, you'd rather jump around the neck all night keeping up (which you have already admitted is an issue) than just tune up half a step, because it too difficult to manage the added string pressure, relative to being in a completely different planet all night? I'm not judging, but those numbers don't add up to me. I'd prefer to just tune up 1/2 step and join the band. I don't know that I value bends more than everything else.
Re: Pots and string gauge Q -- blueman and others
well in my case its a whole step down which i wont tune up cause its 13/17/22/32/44/59 but its not really a big issue for me to play down. the open string thing sucks but as long as you arent looking at other players hands you should be fine.
if you have a trem guitar you may not be able to tune up without royally screwing the bridge settings and most people cant adjust a trem on the fly that quickly.
yikes! thats not good. i would say that im only taking it maybe once a month if that but still i cant imagine things are going to miraculously just get better.
do you take something different now?
well in my case its a whole step down which i wont tune up cause its 13/17/22/32/44/59 but its not really a big issue for me to play down. the open string thing sucks but as long as you arent looking at other players hands you should be fine.
if you have a trem guitar you may not be able to tune up without royally screwing the bridge settings and most people cant adjust a trem on the fly that quickly.
yikes! thats not good. i would say that im only taking it maybe once a month if that but still i cant imagine things are going to miraculously just get better.
do you take something different now?
Re: Pots and string gauge Q -- blueman and others
You know, I remember being told that Jimi page used very light strings for a lot of stuff, and didn't Tony Iommy as well? Due the damaged digit or something like that?
I always assumed heavier was better and had more bass, but recently I am learning that that may be completely wrong. Lighter may actually give more of everything, highs and lows.
I wonder if there is a variance in the classical stringed instrument world. Not just guitars, but violins etc. I'd be willing to bet there's a ratio of length to guage that offers optimal harmonic content.
You know, I remember being told that Jimi page used very light strings for a lot of stuff, and didn't Tony Iommy as well? Due the damaged digit or something like that?
I always assumed heavier was better and had more bass, but recently I am learning that that may be completely wrong. Lighter may actually give more of everything, highs and lows.
I wonder if there is a variance in the classical stringed instrument world. Not just guitars, but violins etc. I'd be willing to bet there's a ratio of length to guage that offers optimal harmonic content.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Pots and string gauge Q -- blueman and others
It would be a formlula that includes neck length & body depth, width, & length, along with solid, semi, or hollow. Lots of variable with electrics. And all that has to run thru an amp & speakers.
It would be a formlula that includes neck length & body depth, width, & length, along with solid, semi, or hollow. Lots of variable with electrics. And all that has to run thru an amp & speakers.
WoodyTone
New member
Re: Pots and string gauge Q -- blueman and others
Some people might disagree, but in my experience it was all 9s until SRV came along. All of a sudden everyone wanted heavier strings, they sounded better, etc. Then along came de-tuning, the temporary death of midrange, etc. and all of that required heavier strings. (If you play guitar in a band, you DO NOT want bass, you want midrange. You do want to hear the high and low notes, but not those frequencies, if that makes sense.)
Also, for pros, this has nothing to do with hand strength. EVH and Hendrix in particular have/had unbelievably strong hands, which makes what they are able to do with light strings so much more amazing. And they and others have/had great ears for tone, so why would they choose lighter strings? It's all about the sound.
Some people might disagree, but in my experience it was all 9s until SRV came along. All of a sudden everyone wanted heavier strings, they sounded better, etc. Then along came de-tuning, the temporary death of midrange, etc. and all of that required heavier strings. (If you play guitar in a band, you DO NOT want bass, you want midrange. You do want to hear the high and low notes, but not those frequencies, if that makes sense.)
Also, for pros, this has nothing to do with hand strength. EVH and Hendrix in particular have/had unbelievably strong hands, which makes what they are able to do with light strings so much more amazing. And they and others have/had great ears for tone, so why would they choose lighter strings? It's all about the sound.