Power Tube Saturation

[bryvincent]

Re: Power Tube Saturation

cranking a 30W amp through a single 30w speaker has a tendency not to sound good in my experience. the single speaker handles all the amp's power causing it to "fart" or distort. the speaker may even distort first before the power amp.
try it with a 2x12 or a 4x12 cab. if your amp gives out 30 watts, in a 2x12 , each speaker(similar) will get 15W. in a 4x12, 7.5W each

 

[Corbic]

Re: Power Tube Saturation

Wouldn't it be nice to get power tube distortion in a pedal?

Unfortunately, in most vacuum tube pedals, the tube is merely used in "starved plate mode" as a clipping diode. This is not not true tube amplification and it's not going to give you power tube saturation.

Wouldn't it be nice to get a pedal that couples a 100% vacuum tube signal path with high plate voltage? This would allow the tubes to operate to their fullest potential and provide the most gain and the smoothest tone.

It never hurts to wish...

I smell a new Seymour Duncan effect pedal

Or at least I hope so...

 

[Evan Skopp]

Re: Power Tube Saturation

Don't read more into it. I'm just expressing what I think would be a cool idea.

Your marketing guy,

- Evan

 

[mnbaseball91]

Re: Power Tube Saturation

I think the point about speaker distortion is a very good one. There's a volume range on my Traynor after the power tubes start saturating but before the speaker starts getting overloaded that sounds phenominal. Anything past that and it isn't so hot. Similarly, the best tone I've ever gotten was (don't laugh at me) playing a fully cranked Fender HR Deville 410. The amp is 60 watts, the speakers in it were rated at 40 watts each. Great power tube saturation, very little speaker breakup. Speaker distortion has its place and I personally believe it's a big part of good tone, but I never liked the sound of a speaker that's being pushed to its limit. Plug that Peavey into a cab and then see what you think.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: Power Tube Saturation

Don't read more into it. I'm just expressing what I think would be a cool idea.

Your marketing guy,

- Evan

and he's just expressing that you need to push for this as a new SFX pedal so you can get mailed flowers & candy

 

[jonnymangia]

Re: Power Tube Saturation

cranking a 30W amp through a single 30w speaker has a tendency not to sound good in my experience. the single speaker handles all the amp's power causing it to "fart" or distort. the speaker may even distort first before the power amp.
try it with a 2x12 or a 4x12 cab. if your amp gives out 30 watts, in a 2x12 , each speaker(similar) will get 15W. in a 4x12, 7.5W each

Thanks for the advice. Just to clarify (b/c all I've ever used are combos), if I got a cab, how would that work/connect with the combo amp/G12H30? Or would the G12H30 be out of the picture?

Jonny

PS - I am also going to throw new tubes in the amp. It currently has EL84 GT's.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: Power Tube Saturation

if you have an extension speaker jack, well, what i would do is plug the g12h into the extension & run the main jack to like a 2x12 or 4x12, which you could also put g12h30's in. But, if the amp doesn't have some sort of adjustable impedance, you might have to buy 2 16 ohm speakers for the 2x12 & just not use the one in the amp. Not to say it'd never get used, just wouldn't when you gotta crank it

 

[JeffB]

Re: Power Tube Saturation

If I'm not mistake Soldano and Budda (and Mesa did) make tube pedals that operate/d at the high plate voltages they get in an amp?

Soldano's is like $400....

 

[JeffB]

Re: Power Tube Saturation

And yes, I think it would be wise to plug the C30 into a cab before wholly dismissing the amp...Avatar makes great cabs for reasonable prices.

When I was young and stupid(er), I couldn't figure out why my Marshall combo's sounded like @$$ at high volumes....once I got a cab, I got that tight sound..pushing a speaker is good....pushing it past the limit, not so good.

Those guys with the big SG tones weren't playing through a 1x12...even Clapton was using a 2x12 combo with his JTM/BB @ 30-ish watts. All those other classic sounds are marshall cabs...and back then they were 4x12s, TWO OF EM!...with 80-100 watts plus power handling for each cab .....as the power went up in the marshalls (from JTMs at 30 watts up to 100 watts in SLPs), the greenbacks got more powerful as well.

Speaker is the LAST thing in the chain, but ultimately it's what lets us hear the sounds...if it's not optimal, we don't hear optimal sound. Grab a POD XT and just listen to the massive difference the modeled speaker cabs make on one amp.....from greenback 20s, to 25s, to 75s, to V30s....then mix something like a tweed champ, and run it through say a 4x12 cab w/ 75s...the difference in sound is HUGE..same goes for the real thing.

 

[bryvincent]

Re: Power Tube Saturation

Thanks for the advice. Just to clarify (b/c all I've ever used are combos), if I got a cab, how would that work/connect with the combo amp/G12H30? Or would the G12H30 be out of the picture?

Jonny

PS - I am also going to throw new tubes in the amp. It currently has EL84 GT's.

ok, i went to the peavey site and read the manual for the classic 30. it says the extrernal speaker should have a minimum impedance of 16 ohms. so just plug in a 16 ohm cab and you're good to go. though the manual didn't say if the on-board speaker will still be operational or will be disconnected if the external speaker is connected. i suggest you read the manual. if you don't have it, you can download it at the peavey website.

 

[Guitarist]

Re: Power Tube Saturation

There's no such thing as power tube saturation.

 

[kjrocks]

Re: Power Tube Saturation

Wouldn't it be nice to get power tube distortion in a pedal?

Unfortunately, in most vacuum tube pedals, the tube is merely used in "starved plate mode" as a clipping diode. This is not not true tube amplification and it's not going to give you power tube saturation.

Wouldn't it be nice to get a pedal that couples a 100% vacuum tube signal path with high plate voltage? This would allow the tubes to operate to their fullest potential and provide the most gain and the smoothest tone.

It never hurts to wish...

Apparently ,thats what I've been doing.....:smack:

 

[jonnymangia]

Re: Power Tube Saturation

Those Avatar cabs look sweet. If the speaker in the combo is not going to factor in the sound (with that being handled by the cab), I'm going to put the Blue Marvel back in and grab that Avatar 2x12 with the Vintage 30 or Greenback and put my G12H30 in there as well....if that makes sense.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: Power Tube Saturation

i think you can get a g12h30/v30 combo for a cheaper price from them

and if thats the case, well, you can expiriment with that or just 2 g12h's

seems like the way to go

definately go closed back, though

 

[jonnymangia]

Re: Power Tube Saturation

i think you can get a g12h30/v30 combo for a cheaper price from them

and if thats the case, well, you can expiriment with that or just 2 g12h's

seems like the way to go

definately go closed back, though

Hvae you ever bought from them? Will they sell a 2 x 12 with just one speaker, so I can install my own G12H30?

 

[Gr8Scott]

Re: Power Tube Saturation

Hvae you ever bought from them? Will they sell a 2 x 12 with just one speaker, so I can install my own G12H30?

I'd skip all that if I were you. The classic 30 ain't bad, but it isn't going to deliver what you want on it's own. It's a master volume amp and that means that power tube saturation isn't gonna happen with this design really. It's just a fact of life. If you want Clapton era bluesbreaker tone, there aren't many ways to get it. I've got a classic 50 and I'm coming to the same realization. I either get rid of the classic 50 and buy something else, or I keep it for the nice cleans and buy something dedicated to distorted sounds. Either way the classic 50 isn't gonna do what i need on it's own.

To get the sound you are after, you're gonna have to go one of two different routes. Either keep the classic 30 and use a pedal to get the sound you want (v-stack classic would be a great suggestion) or get a non-master volume amp with a 4x12 cab and crank it up. The v-stack costs $200 roughly and it should get you VERY close to the sounds you seek. Selling the classic 30 and getting something that fits better with your desired sound will be triple that amount at least. The upside of spending the extra dough on the new amp is that you'd have a fantastic foundation to build from. Hopping up the classic 30 with new speakers etc isn't going to do much IMHO. One guy already tried a swap and is ready to sell his now.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Power Tube Saturation

Everybody has pretty much covered all the bases for you aside from other amp options so I'm going to toss a few at you.

Crate V Series - These amps simply kick @ss. Try out the 30 watt version and if you can, find one with the Tone Tubby speaker in it. That thing is so sweet sounding with that speaker. Excellent amp IMO. The Reverend likes 'em.

Zinky Blue Velvet - IMO, I don't think there is a better sounding tube combo out there in it's class. It simple screams and has tone that kills. Crystal clean to screaming VH tones and everything in between. This one has been on my G.A.S. list since I played one last year.

 

[jonnymangia]

Re: Power Tube Saturation

Everybody has pretty much covered all the bases for you aside from other amp options so I'm going to toss a few at you.

Crate V Series - These amps simply kick @ss. Try out the 30 watt version and if you can, find one with the Tone Tubby speaker in it. That thing is so sweet sounding with that speaker. Excellent amp IMO. The Reverend likes 'em.

Zinky Blue Velvet - IMO, I don't think there is a better sounding tube combo out there in it's class. It simple screams and has tone that kills. Crystal clean to screaming VH tones and everything in between. This one has been on my G.A.S. list since I played one last year.

I played the Crate Palomino and came very close to snatching one. What do you think of Traynor? I've been hearing some cool things about this blue amp they produce with EL84's.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Power Tube Saturation

I played the Crate Palomino and came very close to snatching one. What do you think of Traynor? I've been hearing some cool things about this blue amp they produce with EL84's.

I'm not too familiar with the Traynor. Haven't played one so I can't give an honest opinion on it. My next tube combo will be a Zinky hands down.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Power Tube Saturation

I played the Crate Palomino and came very close to snatching one. What do you think of Traynor? I've been hearing some cool things about this blue amp they produce with EL84's.

EL34s.

Harmony Central had people posting some clips at one point, may do a search over there on the amp forum?. Def impressive for the $.

You'd still need a closed back cab though.