Dr.Mavashi
neonderthalotonalogist
When do you go for a speaker swap vs power tube swap? That is, you believe that power tubes wont have enough effect and its different speakers that will get you your wanted bass definition, mids, etc ....
Power Tube Swap vs Speaker Swap
- Thread starter Dr.Mavashi
- Start date
JeffB
Let it B
Re: Power Tube Swap vs Speaker Swap
Tube changes are good at cleaning up rough edges, adding/subtracting gain or compression. They can make a noticable improvement. Power tubes much less so than pre-amp.I generally mess with power tubes when power tubes have too much grind/harshness or the amp is too dark/bright, but overall tone is in the ballpark.
Speakers are drastic changes to combat fundamental tone problems.
Tube changes are good at cleaning up rough edges, adding/subtracting gain or compression. They can make a noticable improvement. Power tubes much less so than pre-amp.I generally mess with power tubes when power tubes have too much grind/harshness or the amp is too dark/bright, but overall tone is in the ballpark.
Speakers are drastic changes to combat fundamental tone problems.
Empty Pockets
BadHairDayologist
Re: Power Tube Swap vs Speaker Swap
Nothing influences the tone of your amp more than its speakers.
Nothing influences the tone of your amp more than its speakers.
uOpt
Something Cool
Re: Power Tube Swap vs Speaker Swap
Different brand tubes or different kinds of tubes with changing bias?
In any case, speakers matter a lot. The only reason to prefer tube changes would be if you sometimes use speaker emulation.
Also depends on what speakers you have. Cheap speakers are a killer for your sound. There isn't really a way for the power amp tubes to be that much responsible for sound death.
Different brand tubes or different kinds of tubes with changing bias?
In any case, speakers matter a lot. The only reason to prefer tube changes would be if you sometimes use speaker emulation.
Also depends on what speakers you have. Cheap speakers are a killer for your sound. There isn't really a way for the power amp tubes to be that much responsible for sound death.
dystrust
Well-known member
Re: Power Tube Swap vs Speaker Swap
First of all, absolute +1 on speakers vs. power tubes.
Regarding preamp vs. poweramp, that largely depends on the amp in question. My Marshall Jubilee has A LOT more preamp gain than my friend's '73 PTP Superlead, so swapping power tubes in the Jubilee doesn't affect overall tone that much. In fact I once swapped between EL-34s and KT-88s and was shocked at how little the overall tone changed. The KT-88s were a bit louder and slightly less bright; that's it.
In the Superlead OTOH tone generation is a lot more balanced. One afternoon we swapped between GT, EHX, and a set of NOS Mullards in both the Superlead and Jubilee. I don't know if they were on the way out or if I just don't like them, but the GTs were usable (though not great) in the Jubilee and absolutely awful in the Superlead. Bright and harsh with hollow mids and a very anemic bottom end.
The EHX (my usual tubes) were a small step better in the Jubilee and quite a large one in the Superlead; I'd have been very happy with them if NOS weren't an option. Trying the NOS Mullards was an eye opener in both amps. They sounded great and were clearly the best of the three, but how they two amps reacted was the real surprise. In the Jubilee I was surprised by how close the EHX were in comparison; I absolutely would not pay the premium for NOS for the TINY change in tone. In the Superlead it wasn't remotely close.
First of all, absolute +1 on speakers vs. power tubes.
Regarding preamp vs. poweramp, that largely depends on the amp in question. My Marshall Jubilee has A LOT more preamp gain than my friend's '73 PTP Superlead, so swapping power tubes in the Jubilee doesn't affect overall tone that much. In fact I once swapped between EL-34s and KT-88s and was shocked at how little the overall tone changed. The KT-88s were a bit louder and slightly less bright; that's it.
In the Superlead OTOH tone generation is a lot more balanced. One afternoon we swapped between GT, EHX, and a set of NOS Mullards in both the Superlead and Jubilee. I don't know if they were on the way out or if I just don't like them, but the GTs were usable (though not great) in the Jubilee and absolutely awful in the Superlead. Bright and harsh with hollow mids and a very anemic bottom end.
The EHX (my usual tubes) were a small step better in the Jubilee and quite a large one in the Superlead; I'd have been very happy with them if NOS weren't an option. Trying the NOS Mullards was an eye opener in both amps. They sounded great and were clearly the best of the three, but how they two amps reacted was the real surprise. In the Jubilee I was surprised by how close the EHX were in comparison; I absolutely would not pay the premium for NOS for the TINY change in tone. In the Superlead it wasn't remotely close.
Powdered Toast Man
New member
Re: Power Tube Swap vs Speaker Swap
This pretty much nails it. I wouldn't say changing speakers is to correct a tone problem so much as it will change the tone of your amp to something different. I liken it to changing pickups on a guitar.
This pretty much nails it. I wouldn't say changing speakers is to correct a tone problem so much as it will change the tone of your amp to something different. I liken it to changing pickups on a guitar.
JeffB
Let it B
Re: Power Tube Swap vs Speaker Swap
I should have put "problem" in quotes.
What I mean is if there needs to be a drastic change because things like pickups and tubes are not helping.
E.g... If youve got a 2203 and know you love the sounds youve heard from a 2203 but your rig just doesnt sound "right" with t75s, a speaker change to 65s (or whatever) might fix the "problem", and is better than looking for a new amp. Its a drastic change that can totally transform everything and solve issues.
I should have put "problem" in quotes.
What I mean is if there needs to be a drastic change because things like pickups and tubes are not helping.
E.g... If youve got a 2203 and know you love the sounds youve heard from a 2203 but your rig just doesnt sound "right" with t75s, a speaker change to 65s (or whatever) might fix the "problem", and is better than looking for a new amp. Its a drastic change that can totally transform everything and solve issues.
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LLL
New member
Re: Power Tube Swap vs Speaker Swap
Speaking as someone who has literally rebuilt an amp from the ground up and has done numerous mods and tone tweaks:
Effect on tone (lower the number = more effect) from the vintage Marshall circuit school of thought -
1) The circuit itself (preamp, tone stack values, etc)
2) OT (output tranny)
3) NFB circuit (adjusts the amount of gain)
4) speakers
5) bright cap (if any)
6) preamp tubes
7) filtering (the feel of the amp)
8) poweramp tubes
Speaking as someone who has literally rebuilt an amp from the ground up and has done numerous mods and tone tweaks:
Effect on tone (lower the number = more effect) from the vintage Marshall circuit school of thought -
1) The circuit itself (preamp, tone stack values, etc)
2) OT (output tranny)
3) NFB circuit (adjusts the amount of gain)
4) speakers
5) bright cap (if any)
6) preamp tubes
7) filtering (the feel of the amp)
8) poweramp tubes
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Powdered Toast Man
New member
Re: Power Tube Swap vs Speaker Swap
Yeah I gotcha. Like how I built a 5E3 clone and it didn't sound all that amazing with the Jensen C12N that came with the kit. Tried a 1960's Jensen P12Q and it was better, but still lacking. Tried a Weber 12A125a and that was when the amp had the "magic".
I find preamp tubes can be good for taming certain subtle frequencies but it's not a big swing in terms of overall tone. Like I've used tubes to cure some brittle highs or unsavory overdriven tone, but the amp still sounds like the same amp in the end. When I've changed speakers it takes on a whole different tone and feel.
Yeah I gotcha. Like how I built a 5E3 clone and it didn't sound all that amazing with the Jensen C12N that came with the kit. Tried a 1960's Jensen P12Q and it was better, but still lacking. Tried a Weber 12A125a and that was when the amp had the "magic".
I find preamp tubes can be good for taming certain subtle frequencies but it's not a big swing in terms of overall tone. Like I've used tubes to cure some brittle highs or unsavory overdriven tone, but the amp still sounds like the same amp in the end. When I've changed speakers it takes on a whole different tone and feel.
Powdered Toast Man
New member
LLL
New member
Re: Power Tube Swap vs Speaker Swap
Well to use general terms (I suppose along "fiber" lines hah), an OT can totally constipate your tone or really open it up.
(some like the former, some like the latter - it's subjective)
It can introduce its own distortion as well.
It's key (and ranked very high IMO) because it is the interface between your amp's circuit and the speakers.
My JTM45RI stock Marshall OT... when I swapped it out with a Mercury Mags O-45JT, it sounded like a blanket
had lifted off the tone.
Well to use general terms (I suppose along "fiber" lines hah), an OT can totally constipate your tone or really open it up.
(some like the former, some like the latter - it's subjective)
It can introduce its own distortion as well.
It's key (and ranked very high IMO) because it is the interface between your amp's circuit and the speakers.
My JTM45RI stock Marshall OT... when I swapped it out with a Mercury Mags O-45JT, it sounded like a blanket
had lifted off the tone.
