Pre-sticker PAF or early SD 59?

[tzurby]

I opened a thread on the MyLesPaul Forum regarding a Humbucker PU of mine, which sounds really good (at least as good as the original pat# sticker T-tops and pre T-Tops I have). I thought it could be a pre-sticker PAF. But the experts over there think it could be an early Seymour Duncan 59.
What do the SD-experts here think?
Pictures and specs on the My Les Paul Forum.

 

[Mincer]

Please post your question here, and not a link to another forum (at least for your first post here).

 

[freefrog]

Looks like.

If there's yellow spots on the black cloth under the braided shielding of the wire, the pickup is an Early 59. Example (I'm really not a pro photograph but "you'll get the picture"):



Also, the keeper bar under the screw poles should look as the one below, with bevelled holes. Bad pic once again but clear enough to be understood, hopefully.



A vintage Gibson PU should have a different one with "straight holes". Here is the keeper bar of a P.A.F.:



NOTE - Be aware that early 59's can be fragile: Seymour did design his butyrate bobbins in a very clever way preventing warping but apparently, the material itself shrinks with time and the coils can become looser because of this... so the wire of the coils tends to get out from under the black tape.

But these oldies are excellent pickups IME / IMHO.

 

[freefrog]

Oh, and the magnet of an early 59/SH-1 should most probably be a rough cast one, with a dark blueish color.

And welcome on the SD forum. Hadn't seen it was your first post...

 

[tzurby]

Here are the data of the humbucker pickup I thought/think it might be a pre-sticker PAF. It's the best sounding humbucker PU I have (and I have some pat# T-Tops and pre T-Tops).

• 7,64 Ohm
• no Sticker, no signs under blacklight: 1957
• black wire: pre 1965
• Phillips screws: pre 1967
• L-marks: pre 1972
• circle in a square: pre T-Top (1967)
• coil wire: ?
• Magnet: 6,4cm = long (pre 1961)

Regarding the wire, the holes are stuffed with pretty much dirt (cleaning them, it seems to me, is too risky). What I see with a magnifier looks more orange than purple...

As far as I know all the SDs had stickers. I cannot find any remains of such a sticker.

The imprinted SD logo which my PU does not have was, as I read somewhere, introduced in 1983.

Could this be an early SD 59? It looks older than the SD 59s I find.

 

[tzurby]

As it becomes clearer that this is a pretty early Seymour Duncan humbucker, what is it, then?
Here is an early ad for SD humbuckers:

It is not a 59 as these were, according to this ad, creme or zebra, the Customs were too strong (14k), the Seymourized must have had 4 wires, the JB had 4 wires. So, it could be a Jazz Model, or a Duncan Distortion. Or some custom design?

 

[jeremy]

if the wire looks more orange than purple, id guess a jazz? if it was purple, id guess a 59 but those are just that, guesses

 

[beaubrummels]

As it becomes clearer that this is a pretty early Seymour Duncan humbucker, what is it, then?
Here is an early ad for SD humbuckers:

It is not a 59 as these were, according to this ad, creme or zebra, the Customs were too strong (14k), the Seymourized must have had 4 wires, the JB had 4 wires. So, it could be a Jazz Model, or a Duncan Distortion. Or some custom design?

Can't be a Distortion at 7,64k Ohm

 

[tzurby]

According to freefrog, it is either a '59 or a Jazz.

As a matter of fact, all my early SH1's came "creme" or zebra. But I don't consider all black early 59's as impossible : Duncan was not yet a big factory with standardized production 4 decades ago.

Except a neck SH1, the only early Duncan model matching your DCR measurement would be the Jazz/SH2 (technically close to a patent sticker T-Top, AFAIK/IME).

JB and Dist would have a twice higher DCR.

As the wire is more orange than purple, it's, according to jeremy, probably a Jazz. A Jazz that rocks...