Preamp vs Power Tube Distortion

Re: Preamp vs Power Tube Distortion

i dont know if ive ever heard isolated power tube distortion and guessing most others havent either. youd need a perfectly clean signal with tons of amplitude and a PI with a ton of headroom (unless the amp was single ended) so everything stays clean till the power tubes.

You are right in most amps its impossible to separate.

Ive done an approximation of it with my old VHT 2150 poweramp then feed it a completely clean signal from my preamp (at the time was an ADA MP2) then crank the hell out of the poweramp. Being the signal from the preamp was clean but loud its not a completely accurate representation but it gave an idea of what the poweramp clipping was like on its own. Poweramp including the PI that is.
 
Re: Preamp vs Power Tube Distortion

I can tell you this though what many guys think of as powertube distortion is actually the PI distorting.

Well said.

A phase inverter tube begging for mercy is the source of all that cranked-tube-amp tone mojo magic.
 
Re: Preamp vs Power Tube Distortion

Power tube distortion from my experience, and from recently using lower wattage amps, gives a bigger, rounder addition to the preamp distortion. Preamp distortion on its own can sound a little buzzy
 
Re: Preamp vs Power Tube Distortion

A bit of nomenclature clarification for me...Preamp tubes distort and power tubes overdrive?
Distortion refers to the fact that tubes can't amplify a signal cleanly past a certain point, and overdrive is more or less a synonym for that phenomenon.

The underlying mechanism for power tube distortion and preamp tube distortion is exactly the same... The difference is that for most amps the output tranformer doesn't really get saturated until the power tubes are cooking. The OT is a huge factor in the sound. Add to that the fact that power amp distortion usually occurs at high volumes which changes how we perceive the frequencies being amplified, and it's not that they're terribly different just that the circumstances surrounding them impart different characteristics to that distortion IMO.
 
Re: Preamp vs Power Tube Distortion

Please bare with me, I am not claiming I am 100% correct on this but following is my understanding so far, I am not an expert and you should go out and try to read a bit more about it. Theoretical perfect hifi amplification is linear (louder replica of input signal), guitar amp distortion as we know it comes from imperfections of the amplifier for which which preamp, poweramp, transformers and speaker contribute too, changing the shape of the sound if you could look at it graphically maybe thru a graphic equalizer with a LOT of small frequency bands. These imperfections are emphasized by the input level at each stage. Guitar -> Preamp tubes-> Power Amp Tubes -> Transformer -> Speaker

Lets think of an amp with master volume so the power section is not being "Pushed". A clean boost is like a louder guitar with no EQ change that pushes the preamp section so the imperfections (lets call it the character) of the preamp is the one you hear from this kind of distortion, turning up the gain of preamp section will make the tubes to work in bigger current/voltage levels that make its own "imperfections" more pronounced too, but musical as we know.

I understand for old guitar amps there was no separation of level controls for preamp and poweramp, chances are they did not even call these that way, it was a whole amp. So all the elements would interact and feed a bigger input signal to the next stage as you would crank the volume knob. I understand the approach of separated controls for distortion and volume (preamp gain and power amp gain? ) came later and only then people would better understand how much each stage contributes to the tone they like.

I have not ever been able to play with a real tube amp and crank the volume to hear what the power tubes section adds to the sound, but it is my impression most (not all) of the tone metal players like comes from the preamp, maybe because the nuances in tone are not that much, and it is my impression that guys who play sligh breakup and classic overdrive do appreciate what each section of the whole signal chain adds and so that is why they appreciate what a cranked power amp section ads to the tone.

I am myself focusing right now on completing my rig based on tube based preamp in stomp-box size and solid state power amp in a small size too. By not having transformers allows me to have a lightweight, smaller and portable equipment, I am sacrificing only the power amp section as for me most of my tone I am looking for is, imho, coming from the preamp or pedals or speakers. May I be missing something even better by not having a tubed based power amp section? Maybe. but portability was very important to me and that was the approach that better matched my needs.
 
Re: Preamp vs Power Tube Distortion

Power tube distortion from my experience, and from recently using lower wattage amps, gives a bigger, rounder addition to the preamp distortion. Preamp distortion on its own can sound a little buzzy

Like some distortion pedals thru a clean amp? I guess the poweramp+transformer+speaker act like a filter that gets rid of some of that high frequencies that some people don't like from the preamp only distortion. I still wonder if there is something else to try like a post eq or something after the preamp into non saturated power amps.
 
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