Pro Tools 10 plug-ins question

[dg27]

I work in Pro Tools 10. Occasionally I collaborate with others and finalize the final track later without their input.

I'm working with a guy on a track (I am paying him). His job is to provide piano and midi drums. He'll deliver a PT 10 file. I will later add additional instruments and vocals.

I'm concerned about him using plug-ins that I might not have. Is there a way for him to provide it as a Pro Tools 10 .ptf with the plug-ins printed? I will be there when he finalizes his portion of the track, so I can make whatever aesthetic decisions are needed on the spot.

The reason I'm asking is that I don't want to be bound to returning to his studio after I've added the other instruments and vocals. I also want to be hearing what I heard in his studio when I'm working on my parts.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Pro Tools 10 plug-ins question

Yes. Just export the tracks as a mono WAV and re-import them into the session. Make sure to label which one is the multed copy with effects and which is uneffected. PT may have a dialog box that asks if you want to include the plugins on the export.

You can also bounce the track in place and that will print with the effects as well. But I would still make a copy of the uneffected track as well, just in case you need to do something different later.

 

[dg27]

Re: Pro Tools 10 plug-ins question

Thanks--this is a relief.

Make sure to label which one is the multed copy with effects and which is uneffected.

Not sure what you mean by "multed," but think I understand: I think you're just saying to make sure I have two copies: one with all the effects/plug-ins and one without.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Pro Tools 10 plug-ins question

Sorry; mult = copy. Sometimes the mult can be a single track split up over several tracks, sometimes it is just a straight up copy of an already existing and edited track. And, yes -- your understanding is correct.

 

[dg27]

Re: Pro Tools 10 plug-ins question

Thanks so much for your help!

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Pro Tools 10 plug-ins question

Are you receiving the collaborator's programming as audio or MIDI or both?

If you import the performances as MIDI sequence data, this leaves you free to select ANY suitable sound source, from cheesy General MIDI presets to outboard hardware MIDI instruments to your idea of good percussion and piano plug-ins.

Importing as MIDI files gives you the option to cut and paste, transpose and change tempo - whatever the song structure requires.

 

[dg27]

Re: Pro Tools 10 plug-ins question

Thanks for your reply.

I planned on receiving as audio: I am not MIDI savvy at all. In the past I've simply imported tracks into PT, added my stuff, and finalized later.

I'll be taking my .ptf to my usual commercial studio after I have added parts. Should I ask this guy to give me MIDI data as well, just in case?

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Pro Tools 10 plug-ins question

That is between you and your remote collaborator. Ideally, this detail is part of the brief that you agree upon at the beginning of your joint project.

If you have not asked for MIDI Files up front, they may not be included in the fee. Ask anyway.

If you have no great need for MIDI sequencing, midway through a project is probably not the best time to take the plunge.

If your overdubbed performances are in any way a response to the nuances of the supplied backing tracks, the ability to change things later is going to be of little help to you EXCEPT in the realm of timing corrections. You should already be able to perform such edits in audio.

 

[dg27]

Re: Pro Tools 10 plug-ins question

That is between you and your remote collaborator. Ideally, this detail is part of the brief that you agree upon at the beginning of your joint project.

The project has not started yet. I included other aspects in the project brief, but did not mention MIDI data. Also, btw, it's not a joint project: I'm strictly hiring him to provide the piano and MIDI drums tracks.

If your overdubbed performances are in any way a response to the nuances of the supplied backing tracks, the ability to change things later is going to be of little help to you EXCEPT in the realm of timing corrections. You should already be able to perform such edits in audio.

If I am just following the timing of his performance on his file, then there shouldn't be any timing corrections, right? (I'm trying to keep this as simple as possible.)

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Pro Tools 10 plug-ins question

Regarding timing corrections. Sometimes, natural microscopic variations in timing accuracy imbue multi-track recorded music with a "human" feel. Every once in a while, an accentuated full band hit/stab needs to be absolutely spot on for all instruments and/or voices. In my opinion, Time Stretch is a valid way to get this to happen without punching in or making a whole fresh pass of individual instrument tracks.

My terminology and thought processes are rooted in analogue. I prefer to retain the spontaneity of a slightly flawed first or second take and edit it in a few spots than comp together a succession of sterile snippets.

 

[dg27]

Re: Pro Tools 10 plug-ins question

Thanks for all the useful input.

Regarding timing corrections. Sometimes, natural microscopic variations in timing accuracy imbue multi-track recorded music with a "human" feel.

Therein lies the beauty, IMO!

Every once in a while, an accentuated full band hit/stab needs to be absolutely spot on for all instruments and/or voices.

Agreed.

In my opinion, Time Stretch is a valid way to get this to happen without punching in or making a whole fresh pass of individual instrument tracks.

OK, so let's say I receive this as audio, do my overdubs, and bring it to the engineer I've worked with many times: If needed will he be able to fix this only if I received MIDI data?

My terminology and thought processes are rooted in analogue. I prefer to retain the spontaneity of a slightly flawed first or second take and edit it in a few spots than comp together a succession of sterile snippets.

Same here. Been through the routine of sweating while watching the engineer take the razor blade to the tape.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Pro Tools 10 plug-ins question

The majority of DAW MIDI sequencer pages present the music data in a linear fashion, rather like a player piano roll. It is possible to "grab" individual MIDI Events and shift them about in time (and some other ways).

In the arrangement editing screen of your DAW, it should be possible to position two tracks that you want to work on adjacent to each other. As you drag a MIDI Event with your cursor, the software should present a vertical line. Use this line to align individual MIDI Events exactly in time with audio events. Alternatively, Time Stretch real time audio events until they are better aligned with the sequenced backing instruments.

In my opinion, this process is the job of you, whilst wearing your Composer/Arranger hat. Since you are comfortable with audio, stick with that. I am not suggesting that your regular sound engineer is incapable of performing the MIDI tasks. I am suggesting that it would be an expensive waste of his time and your money.

There is an argument for maximising flexibility. There is a counter-argument for nailing as much of the music as practicable whilst you are working on it. No time is then wasted, agonising over things that cannot be changed.

 

[dg27]

Re: Pro Tools 10 plug-ins question

In the arrangement editing screen of your DAW, it should be possible to position two tracks that you want to work on adjacent to each other. As you drag a MIDI Event with your cursor, the software should present a vertical line. Use this line to align individual MIDI Events exactly in time with audio events.

Actually, I believe I've done this. I work strictly in Pro Tools. In the past I received guitar and drum tracks, imported them into my session and then cut, copied and pasted, or otherwise moved things around to get them in time and where I wanted them.

I think this is what you're talking about, right? (In one case I remember there was a cymbal hit I liked that I wanted to appear elsewhere and in time with a rhythm guitar part.)

dg

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Pro Tools 10 plug-ins question

The only thing that really matters is the finished result.

Cutting and pasting a one-shot sound snippet is just as valid as cutting and pasting a MIDI Note Number, on/off messages and Velocity. Since you can already do the former perfectly well, the most effective use of your time will be to continue in that vein.

 

[dg27]

Re: Pro Tools 10 plug-ins question

Cutting and pasting as I always do it is what I'm most comfortable with.

Thanks for all your help--greatly appreciated.

 

[dg27]

Re: Pro Tools 10 plug-ins question

Yes. Just export the tracks as a mono WAV and re-import them into the session.

Is there any reason this can't be a stereo .wav?

For example, one of the tracks will be a drumkit: I doubt I'm going to get individual tracks for each drum or cymbal, etc., and would want to have the sound stage determined going in.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Pro Tools 10 plug-ins question

Is there any reason this can't be a stereo .wav?

For example, one of the tracks will be a drumkit: I doubt I'm going to get individual tracks for each drum or cymbal, etc., and would want to have the sound stage determined going in.

The general practice is mono WAV, but if the source is a stereo file already, no reason you can't do it in stereo. I am not a fan of exporting tracks with predetermined pan positions as it limits you later on down the road, and typically split stereo files into separate mono files when exporting. The only time I have found this can get cumbersome is when you have a lot of stereo synth tracks; that can inflate the track count quite a bit.

If the drums are virtual, the plug in should have an option for multiple outputs when you set up the instrument. This will map each part of the drum kit to its own track.

It all depends on your overall plan, of course; there really is no right or wong way to go about it.

 

[dg27]

Re: Pro Tools 10 plug-ins question

If the drums are virtual, the plug in should have an option for multiple outputs when you set up the instrument. This will map each part of the drum kit to its own track

This is really useful and I'll ask the guy to set it up that way if at all possible.

Thanks.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Pro Tools 10 plug-ins question

No problema!

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Pro Tools 10 plug-ins question

As a side note, I heard that PT11 solved some conversion/resource/lag issues that existed in 10. Have you considered updating your version?