Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace

[greekdude]

Hello,

I am having a problem with a defective UV70p, which would not tune, would not be stable, would not hold even uniform action height overnight, would strip bridge saddle lock down screws, loose and unpredictable tremolo (Egze Zero ii-7) springs, wrong strings alignment, etc...

Pics when I first opened up the box :

The neck heel enters in the cavity and pushes the neck pickup.

As a result of this, the neck heel shows zero clearance with the pickguard. It almost touches and pushes the pickguard.

As a result, the neck-body joint was very unstable and also the intonation was way off, since the whole system seemed like moving to the right - towards the bridge by 1mm.

After a lot of days struggling to give this some life, I managed to have it in a semi-stable condition, when i started having saddles slipping and action height raising over night. Then I managed to fix those as well using spare parts from an old floyd rose that I had, but time was running out and I had to take a decision. So I decided to send this back.

Apparently some signs of use were evident, which I never thought of correcting since I never realized this could be a problem. In fact I still think those are a piece of cake to fix.

So, here are the pics that Thomann sent to me, claiming that they are unable to replace the guitar with a new one :

So, they claim the guitar was used, that they cant replace it, etc...

The fact is that those scratches (which IMO can be treated easily with some auto-paint repair kit), were done in my effort to make the guitar stable, after many and long sleepless nights. And in fact I managed to make it stable and playable, but could not get rid of the neck pushing the neck pickup, which I just thought was not something I would be happy living with.

So, Thomann leaves me in the dry, and sends the guitar to Ibanez for inspection, relying on them for the final verdict.

What's your call? What are my rights? What would you do? What should Thomann do (or should have done)? What does Ibanez have to do, or should have done?

I worry that Ibanez/Germany won't do anything to the guitar, or even worse, damage it more than it already was by the factory. Also I worry that even if they exchange this for a new one, the new one might very well be a total lemon once again.

I really don't know what to do.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace

Under European Union trading standards law, unless you can prove that the guitar was scratched when you first received it, the shop is within its rights to decline to replace it with another brand new guitar.

The definition of brand new is pretty strict. Apart from anything else, it has purchase tax implications.

Your returned guitar cannot be sold a second time as "new". Somebody somewhere has to lose out. Understandably, the dealer is making certain that it ain't them.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace

The wonders of Thomann....oh well all the small stores are going to die anyways, then that online crap is we have left.
And new Ibanez is sofar removed from what they use to make.....why did you buy that POS??

 

[greekdude]

Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace

Under European Union trading standards law, unless you can prove that the guitar was scratched when you first received it, the shop is within its rights to decline to replace it with another brand new guitar.

I am afraid Euro laws are very explicit about malfunctioning products : http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/guarantees/index_en.htm

Your returned guitar cannot be sold a second time as "new". Somebody somewhere has to lose out. Understandably, the dealer is making certain that it ain't them.

And should not be sold as anything else but "defective" with my scratches or not.

 

[greekdude]

Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace

The wonders of Thomann....oh well all the small stores are going to die anyways, then that online crap is we have left.
And new Ibanez is sofar removed from what they use to make.....why did you buy that POS??

I was afraid to buy from some small greek shop who would very well deny me any kind of support aftersales, so i thought with Thomann i would have my back covered. Turned this was not the case. I would not be sure I really wanted a return and replacement unless I tried myself to set it up, and I would not be entitled a replacement unless I had not touched the tools. Like a vicious circle.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace

The reality is... as soon as you pulled it out of the box and saw the neck pickup all katty whompus you should have shipped it back to thomann instead of trying to fix it. But hindsight is always 20/20, what is thomann offering as a remedy? Are they offering to fix?

 

[greekdude]

Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace

The reality is... as soon as you pulled it out of the box and saw the neck pickup all katty whompus you should have shipped it back to thomann instead of trying to fix it. But hindsight is always 20/20, what is thomann offering as a remedy? Are they offering to fix?

yes they offered to fix it, with an option for replace if the ibanez service cannot fix this. I am worried that they will do some hack, call it a fix, and then it becomes unstable after a while.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace

Bummer....

 

[greekdude]

Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace

Bummer....

Thanx, but I think it will be OK in the end. I will be screwed only if Ibanez service in Germany damages this beyond repair and give it back to me as "fixed".

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace

I sure hope it will be ok All the best of luck!

 

[greekdude]

Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace

I sure hope it will be ok All the best of luck!

Thanx bro!

 

[jonsick]

Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace

Thanx bro!

A few things....

You should have returned it instantly, but oh well, nevermind

Thomann are correct in this regard. I used to work in a shop too many moons ago and we would have taken the same attitude. Basically, if it was returned instantly, it can be taken as a manufacturer issue and returned under stock. But the scratches and parts you replaced really takes that option away for Thomann and, conversely, for you. Given the marks, they can't sell this as new despite how easy it is to clean those scratches up. Would you be happy receiving a guitar that someone else scratched up, replaced various parts on, returned and the retailer then just polished up and sent out as new? No, I don't think you would!

Did you return it to Thomann for a straight no quibble refund, or claim it was defective? I suspect the former which is why they have replied in the way they have. Sadly, given the scratches, Thomann have to treat it as a warranty claim. You will most likely either receive the same guitar back repaired, or a new one if Ibanez decides the faults are too much from manufacture.

With regards the string slipping, I had the same problem on two Prestige model Ibanez guitars bought in 2011 and 2013. I have since sold both and refuse to own anything with Ibanez written on it. People have since told me I'm full of ****. It's refreshing, despite your bad circumstances, to actually come across someone else who had the same issues. Proves I'm not crazy after all!

 

[greekdude]

Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace

Did you return it to Thomann for a straight no quibble refund, or claim it was defective? I suspect the former which is why they have replied in the way they have.

I have sent over 10 e-mails, pics, wholes essays to Thomann about the real problems with this guitar. To answer your question, I would gladly prefer a guitar with 1-2 scratches that was stable as a rock, than a polished piece of unstable firewood. So I claimed it as defective, not as something I just could not bond with.

You will most likely either receive the same guitar back repaired, or a new one if Ibanez decides the faults are too much from manufacture.

Cross my fingers they will do the right thing, cause the fix on this one is not an easy task.

With regards the string slipping, I had the same problem on two Prestige model Ibanez guitars bought in 2011 and 2013. I have since sold both and refuse to own anything with Ibanez written on it. People have since told me I'm full of ****. It's refreshing, despite your bad circumstances, to actually come across someone else who had the same issues. Proves I'm not crazy after all!

The poor screws quality is a piece of cake to solve : just buy some heavy duty m3 screws. I used the parts from an old ancient chinese floyd rose knock-off and they proved much better than those ones. To be frank, I was pretty prepared that I would have to fix the tremolo sooner or later. I just wasn't prepared for an absolutely problematic and unstable neck heel-body joint. That's when I decided I would have to return this.

The irony is, that one week before i sent it back I had to go for a business trip abroad. When i returned, and played it, it was in exactly the same shape as i left it. 100% shredable. Some ppl told that it was silly to sent it back. Maybe haste was a bad adviser. I could definitely solve the problems by my own, but it would require a lot of risking and a lot of work to do it right, stable and not ruin the instrument.

So, I thought that in this state, as I sent it back, it could make some player happy. I still believe that Thomann should pay me for all the work I put on the guitar. And if they give it back to me, they should offer a partial refund. Its not only the european law. It is the right and decent thing to do.

There was no way that any shredder would keep the guitar in its original form. After fixing the scratches, a lot of ppl would be happy to buy it as b-stock. So, basically, I did work that Ibanez did not. Most probably I worked in favor of the Ibanez service, and that's the problem : I did work that Thomann could not benefit from, since they are covered by Ibanez. Therefore Thomann is not directly interested in my adventures, while Ibanez/Germany is too far away....

 

[greekdude]

Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace

Anyways, I start to realize that this not Thomann's fault, as they require the maker's assessment and report on the problem. Lets see how this turns out.

 

[El Supremo]

Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace

It's always a good idea to do an unboxing video, especially when ordering guitars online. This way you can pretty much document every scratch and dent would there be any right out of the box.

 

[greekdude]

Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace

It's always a good idea to do an unboxing video, especially when ordering guitars online. This way you can pretty much document every scratch and dent would there be any right out of the box.

Nice idea, however the scratches were my fault not the manufacturer's and certainly not Thomann's. On the other hand the manufacturer is responsible for the instability and evident construction problems of the guitar right out of the box while Thomann is responsible for not checking what they ship to customers, although they advertise that they check each guitar individually.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace

^That they don't...they ship between 19000 and 25000 packages a day.....and the workers are from the Czech Repulic...even cheaper then a German worker.
And we have scores of guitars people bought "cheap" at Thomann.....or they where in a hurry and bought it....they never work out of the box...not a single one have we met yet!

 

[greekdude]

Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace

^That they don't...they ship between 19000 and 25000 packages a day.....and the workers are from the Czech Repulic...even cheaper then a German worker.
And we have scores of guitars people bought "cheap" at Thomann.....or they where in a hurry and bought it....they never work out of the box...not a single one have we met yet!

Thomann admitted so, although their site clearly says : http://www.thomann.de/gr/helpdesk_repair.html

Guitar Hospitals

Since we check up and adjust each guitar individually prior to shipment, we have no less than three thomann guitar workshops at Thomann. Two at our shipping department and one in the actual store.

Not so honest IMHO.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace

Or they are just terrible at it

 

[greekdude]

Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace

Or they are just terrible at it

haha, No, they admitted they just don't do that.

Anyways talking about Czechs, It struke me in Prague to realize that I could not find locals doing jobs in the center of Prague, at least not in the tourist places, I could find only Balkanians, everywhere. Well, now I think I know the answer : they all moved to Germany.