Problem with my new WLH neck.

T

TheGreatRedDragon

New member
I installed a new WLH neck pickup with a coil split and phase switch, done according to this diagram.

The split and out-of-phase settings work perfectly but there's a problem with the normal setting. With the OOP on the neck pickup sounds exactly like it should but with the OOP off the pickup gets extremely thin and loses a ton of output.

I thought maybe I just messed up the wiring so I disabled the OOP switch and wired it up normally, black to the pot and green to the ground. All that did was tell me the switch isn't the problem because it changed nothing (except now I can't access the normal neck tone).

Has anyone encountered something like this before? I really hope I just installed it wrong and that my pickup isn't defective.
 
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Re: Problem with my new WLH neck.

Welcome to the forum.

If both coils are active with the switch in one position - that is the normal humbucking position.
If only the slug coil is active in one switch position - that is the split position.

I'm going to assume you are reading the phase switch backwards/opposite also.
 
Re: Problem with my new WLH neck.

beaubrummels said:
Welcome to the forum.

If both coils are active with the switch in one position - that is the normal humbucking position.
If only the slug coil is active in one switch position - that is the split position.

I'm going to assume you are reading the phase switch backwards/opposite also.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the welcome.

I've had a lot of trouble getting the orientation of the switches right. I can never tell what up and down are. The diagram that came with my pickup tells me to hook the ground to the lower lug of the split switch. The diagram on the website tells me to hook it to the top lug of the split switch. When I first did it I had the ground closest to the pot. That gave me a split sound when the switch was off so I put it furthest from the lug. I had the same problems with the OOP switch, which were exacerbated by the more complicated wiring. I've made so many revisions to the wiring since then that I can't remember what exact configuration worked but I know that I've never gotten the neck pickup to sound right with the OOP switch on and off, and I know at one point I was able to split it (with the OOP switch on) and make it sound good.

Edit: OK I went in and reversed the coil split. Now that works the way it should but I've still got the same awful tone going on. I resoldered the black lead and made sure there was nothing shorting it and nada, no change. This is really freaking me out and I'm starting to think the pickup is defective. When I'm out of phase the pickup sounds amazing in both humbucking and split modes. When I'm in phase it sounds bad in both modes. If there is a defect it has to be going on with the black lead since the only time the pickup sounds right when it's not being used, right?
 
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Re: Problem with my new WLH neck.

You've got to check the continuity between the lugs on the switch rather than try to match them up by position on a diagram

"Normal" phase on the Duncan will use the black wire for the hot output and the green wire should go to ground, the switch will reverse these for both
 
Re: Problem with my new WLH neck.

TheGreatRedDragon said:
Edit: OK I went in and reversed the coil split. Now that works the way it should but I've still got the same awful tone going on. I resoldered the black lead and made sure there was nothing shorting it and nada, no change. This is really freaking me out and I'm starting to think the pickup is defective. When I'm out of phase the pickup sounds amazing in both humbucking and split modes. When I'm in phase it sounds bad in both modes. If there is a defect it has to be going on with the black lead since the only time the pickup sounds right when it's not being used, right?
Click to expand...

It's not a problem with the pickup, otherwise it would never sound 'amazing'. It's your wiring job. You can't wire by what's 'closest to the pot', by visual orientation. You have to understand what the switch is doing and get the wires onto the correct lugs.
 
Re: Problem with my new WLH neck.

beaubrummels said:
It's not a problem with the pickup, otherwise it would never sound 'amazing'. It's your wiring job. You can't wire by what's 'closest to the pot', by visual orientation. You have to understand what the switch is doing and get the wires onto the correct lugs.
Click to expand...

I was only wiring by visual orientation because I didn't know what the switch was doing. Now I do know but it doesn't matter because I'm not even using the phase switch anymore. The black wire goes right from the pickup to the lug, the green and bare wires go to ground and the red and white go to the split switch. The problem is still there. Hence my confusion.
 
Re: Problem with my new WLH neck.

Try using it without the split switch, so you are using it in plain humbucker mode.
 
Re: Problem with my new WLH neck.

Update: I rewired the OOP switch to see how it functions with the corrected split switch and try to get some sort of benchmark. The results have me totally confused.

I recorded a sound clip going through the four configurations on the neck only. In order they are split/OOP off, split on/OOP off, split off/OOP on, split on/OOP on. On the first three sounds both coils are on. On the fourth sound only the slug coil is on.

When I'm in the middle position the only time theres an OOP effect is in the second configuration.

This is just incredibly confusing to me. When the pickup was wired without the OOP switch the split worked the way it was supposed to. Switch off, both coils, switch on, slug coil. I didn't even touch it when I added the OOP switch.

Apparently I just can't figure out the orientation of the switches. I have the ground for the split wired to the lug closest to the pot, same as it shows in the diagram that came with the pickup, and when I pull the switch up it splits it. Makes sense. So I wire up the OOP switch according to the diagram with the same orientation, ground and hot leads closest to the pot, and it seems to be backwards. Huh? I really wish there was some sort of marking on the thing to clear this up.

Also, am I wrong in how I think this wiring is supposed to work? What I think it's supposed to do:

Split and OOP off = G > R > W > B.

Split on, OOP off = W > B. The connection between R and W is broken so only the slug coil is on.

Split off, OOP on = B > W > R > G. The signal goes through the thing backwards.

Split on, OOP on = R > G. The connection between R and W is broken so only the screw coil is on.

Pulling the OOP switch while the coils are split should switch between slug and screw coils but in my current wiring when the signal flows in one direction the split works and when it flows in the other direction it doesn't. How is that possible?

This is making my head hurt. The thing worked flawlessly when I first did it two years ago.
 
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Re: Problem with my new WLH neck.

TheGreatRedDragon said:
Also, am I wrong in how I think this wiring is supposed to work? What I think it's supposed to do:

Split and OOP off = G > R > W > B.
Split on, OOP off = W > B. The connection between R and W is broken so only the slug coil is on.
Split off, OOP on = B > W > R > G. The signal goes through the thing backwards.
Split on, OOP on = R > G. The connection between R and W is broken so only the screw coil is on.
Click to expand...

I don't know what the letters with greater-than symbols are supposed to mean, but I think you need to post very clear pictures of your wiring before anyone can help you. You describe wires connected based on being wired to the 'lug closest to the pot' which is not how wiring is sorted out, and of course it's not working. You'll need to post clear pictures that show all the wires and connections.
 
Re: Problem with my new WLH neck.

You need to be able to check what the switch is doing

The red and white wires need to be solidly connected together and kept from grounding for normal series operation

The coil split position should connect the red and white wires to ground (which shorts out one of the humbucker's coils)

Normally the Duncan pickup is wired so that the black wire is "hot" and green is the ground

Out of Phase switch changes this around for one pickup in a two humbucker setup

Out of Phase refers to the relationship between two pickups when both are being used
 
Re: Problem with my new WLH neck.

beaubrummels said:
I don't know what the letters with greater-than symbols are supposed to mean, but I think you need to post very clear pictures of your wiring before anyone can help you. You describe wires connected based on being wired to the 'lug closest to the pot' which is not how wiring is sorted out, and of course it's not working. You'll need to post clear pictures that show all the wires and connections.
Click to expand...

G > R > W > B = Green wire to red wire to white wire to black wire.

I'm describing the connections by their location relative to the pot because what else am I supposed to do? Theres no numbers or labels of any kind on the switch for me to reference. All I can say is that it switches to the two lugs closest to the pot when the knob is pulled up.

And I can't post a picture because I don't have a camera or a phone.

pflug said:
You need to be able to check what the switch is doing

The red and white wires need to be solidly connected together and kept from grounding for normal series operation

The coil split position should connect the red and white wires to ground (which shorts out one of the humbucker's coils)

Normally the Duncan pickup is wired so that the black wire is "hot" and green is the ground

Out of Phase switch changes this around for one pickup in a two humbucker setup

Out of Phase refers to the relationship between two pickups when both are being used
Click to expand...

So OOP reverses the signal flow through the pickup? If thats the case, how come when I have the split on and the signal goes from North to South neither coil gets shorted but when it's going South to North one of them does get shorted? What could cause that?

Is it possible that somehow the pickup is out of phase with itself, and that instead of splitting the coil it's putting them back in phase?
 
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Re: Problem with my new WLH neck.

I've disconnected both switches and wired it up stock. All five wires are where they should be, the joints at all clean, the series link is soldered and taped, theres nothing interfering and I'm still getting the horrible out of phase sound. At this point I'm convinced the pickup is defective, I've removed every other variable.
 
Re: Problem with my new WLH neck.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=color_codes

If you were able to get the pickup to sound "right" in any of the combinations the pickup sounds like its OK- you could verify that the lead wires seem to be connected properly to the pickup windings

With all the wires disconnected you should read about 4K ohms between both the black and white wires and the red and green wires and infinite between the red and white

With the red and white wires connected you should see about 8.18K ohms between black and green

The braided wire should be "by itself" and only continuous with the baseplate

Don't know what pickups you took out or what guitar you have as far as a schematic for checking the whole circuit and other components

Different pickups have different color codes for the wiring as well- trying to replace a Gibson/Epiphone or DiMarzio pickup and putting the same color wires to the same locations won't work either
 
Re: Problem with my new WLH neck.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=color_codes

If you were able to get the pickup to sound "right" in any of the combinations the pickup sounds like its OK- you could verify that the lead wires seem to be connected properly to the pickup windings

With all the wires disconnected you should read about 4K ohms between both the black and white wires and the red and green wires and infinite between the red and white

With the red and white wires connected you should see about 8.18K ohms between black and green

The braided wire should be "by itself" and only continuous with the baseplate

Don't know what pickups you took out or what guitar you have as far as a schematic for checking the whole circuit and other components

Different pickups have different color codes for the wiring as well- trying to replace a Gibson/Epiphone or DiMarzio pickup and putting the same color wires to the same locations won't work either
 
Re: Problem with my new WLH neck.

pflug said:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=color_codes

If you were able to get the pickup to sound "right" in any of the combinations the pickup sounds like its OK- you could verify that the lead wires seem to be connected properly to the pickup windings

With all the wires disconnected you should read about 4K ohms between both the black and white wires and the red and green wires and infinite between the red and white

With the red and white wires connected you should see about 8.18K ohms between black and green

The braided wire should be "by itself" and only continuous with the baseplate

Don't know what pickups you took out or what guitar you have as far as a schematic for checking the whole circuit and other components

Different pickups have different color codes for the wiring as well- trying to replace a Gibson/Epiphone or DiMarzio pickup and putting the same color wires to the same locations won't work either
Click to expand...

The pickup I replaced was a four conductor '59 so the codes are the same.

I don't have a multimeter so I can't test those things. What I'm going to do today is hardwire some modififcations and see what works without the added variable of the switches. Based on how it functioned previously I should get a usable sound with the green going to the output and the black and series link sent to ground but we'll see.

What I really want to find out is why the coil split only worked when the guitar was in phase. In phase the coil split like it was supposed to but out of phase the coil split didn't turn off either coil and it made the pickup sound normal.

At any rate, I contacted SD to see if they can offer any insight.
 
Re: Problem with my new WLH neck.

TheGreatRedDragon said:
Based on how it functioned previously I should get a usable sound with the green going to the output and the black and series link sent to ground but we'll see.
Click to expand...

Incorrect.

If you put green to the output and black+series to ground you'll get the pickup out of phase.

For normal humbucking, it should be black to positive, red/white soldered together but not touching anything else, and green to ground.

For split it should be black to positive, red/white and green to ground.
 
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Re: Problem with my new WLH neck.

beaubrummels said:
Incorrect.

If you put green to the output and black+series to ground you'll get the pickup out of phase.

For normal humbucking, it should be black to positive, red/white soldered together but not touching anything else, and green to ground.

For split it should be black to positive, red/white and green to ground.
Click to expand...

I'd be incorrect if my pickup wasn't performing incorrectly.

The pickup is wired exactly how you described and it's not working in the exact same way it hasn't worked, no matter what I've tried, for the last week. The only time it has worked (as in, produce the sound it's supposed to) is when it was wired green to positive and red, white and black to ground via the phase and split switches.

Actually, I'm not even sure why I'm still trying to figure out what the problem is since it's pretty clear the pickup is defective. Curiosity, I guess.
 
Re: Problem with my new WLH neck.

TheGreatRedDragon said:
I'm starting to think the pickup is defective. When I'm out of phase the pickup sounds amazing in both humbucking and split modes. When I'm in phase it sounds bad in both modes
Click to expand...
If you've got one setting that works well, then it should be blatantly obvious that the fault doesn't lie with the p'up but with the wiring done wrong.

Plus, the not really knowing what you're doing and not having any useful device to determine what's going on doesn't certainly help the good people that's going out of their way trying to help you.

Then, with absolutely no other VALID reason than denying your own incompetence on the matter at hand, you've decided that "the p'up is DEFECTIVE"?

Delusionally yours,
 
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