PUP Suggestions for my 1958 Tele?

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DinoTrousers

New member
I've had my dad's old 58 telecaster for several years now, only bringing it out for special occasions. The neck pickup is fantastic, if fairly dark, but the bridge seems to be busted. I get only treble through it, to the point that the tone acts like a second volume on it, and it doesn't read on a voltmeter. I've considered having the pick up rewound, but I think I might be better off removing it, keeping it intact, and placing in a new pick up. At the same time I'll take out the electronics as it's an original "dark circuit," place them someplace safe, and put in the modern Tele set-up so I can have the classic "in-between" sound.

That all said, I'm leaving in the original neck pick up, which is fairly dark and reads 5.9 DC resistance, and I'd like something to pair with that.

I play more blues, rock, and soul than country, and I really like a beefier bridge pup than a twangier one.

I've been looking at the Vintage Broadcaster and the Antiquity Tele '55 as well as the Five-Two, but I am open to any suggestions any of you might have!

Thanks for any input
 
Re: PUP Suggestions for my 1958 Tele?

Quite frankly I'd be looking to a boutique winder. They will have the skills and knowledge either to know what a 58 wind is like, or with a bit of luck you might be able to get those guys to see if it can't be unwound a bit to find the break.
Bill from Electric City Pickups would be a great candidate for either scenario.
 
Re: PUP Suggestions for my 1958 Tele?

Thanks for the reply! I hadn't really thought about having something boutique wound. I'll have to look into that.

On another note, I just saw that Fender released a set of vintage correct 58 Telecaster pick ups. I assume they're the same ones in the reissue. Anyone have experience with those or opinions on Fender's historic stuff?

I'm open to and appreciate all advice!
 
Re: PUP Suggestions for my 1958 Tele?

I'm with Alex on this one. If its a 50s tele it would be a shame to swap parts on it but your idea of keeping everything wired together (as much as possible) and stored safely makes sense.
If i was lucky enough to own a 50s tele and I was in your position, i would probably spend a little extra on pickups and get a custom aged set. If you give the SD custom shop a call and explain what you are after, I am sure they can make a perfect set for your needs. Perhaps consider getting the neck pickup as well so that you will have a "calibrated" and tonally matched set. You can get the neck pickup wound to sound a little brighter, or choose to have a nickel silver cover rather than chromed brass which tends to attenuate the treble. Either way, tell marciela what you want whether it is a pair of pickups or one to match the existing neck and she will wind you something perfect. Make sure you get it "antiquated" so it doesn't look out of place on your old axe.
The other option of course is to send in the original bridge pickup and have her rewind it to your specs, but i think your idea of leaving all the original stuff unmolested is sound. There is always the possibility that the pickup is fine and that the problem lies elsewhere...like in the switch or pots. Perhaps try replacing all that stuff first before you invest in new pickup(s).
As far as the electronics go...CTS pots, switches and jack and a sprague capacitor are excellent. Just check to make sure you have the right shaft for your existing tele knobs. I like .022uf rather than the regular .047uf so that the treble roll off is not so drastic. You can of course use the original control plate and knobs, so your axe will still look all original, but with all fresh componentry under the hood.
I have to say that I am extremely jealous!
Now show us some pics!
Cheers!
 
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Re: PUP Suggestions for my 1958 Tele?

Yep......there is a real incentive with a true vintage guitar to either keep it original, or have the pickup repaired in such a way for it not to be devalued a lot. You can always ship the whole guitar....and have the solder joints in the pickup itself be the method of removal from the electronics. That way the electrics cavity remains 'untouched'
 
Re: PUP Suggestions for my 1958 Tele?

First of all, check the guitar against an old-style Tele wiring diagram, and make sure everything is wired right. Then, check all solder joints visually.

I would do as little mixing/matching/swapping/repairing as possible, and keep all original parts, even if faulty. It's not an extremely valuable guitar, but it is worth a fair chunk of change. And playable, all-original examples in the hands of actual musicians are getting harder and harder to find. So IMO the originality should be respected and preserved, even though it is "just" an occasional player/sentimental piece.

If it does turn out that you have a busted pickup, the Seymour Duncan Custom Shop can likely repair it for you. If your pickup does need major repairs, you want to have them documented as being done by a reputable restorer. It doesn't get much more reputable than Seymour or Maricela.
 
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Re: PUP Suggestions for my 1958 Tele?

but the bridge seems to be busted. I get only treble through it, to the point that the tone acts like a second volume on it, and it doesn't read on a voltmeter.
Click to expand...

What you describe are the symptoms of a coil with a short cut in it. The coil reacts like a capacitor because the wire is broken somewhere. I've already repaired a pickup with this problem.

[EDIT- See what various winders say here: http://music-electronics-forum.com/t37918/ ... and if possible, check if it's the case by testing your pickup with a capacitance meter: if the wire is broken, not only it'll read something like 20MOhm of DCR but also a few nanofarads...]

FWIW, what you evoke could also be noticed with "Nancy", the main Tele played by Roy Buchanan ; Don Mare has set his goal to recreate this special tone with one of his boutique models (named "Nancy", you guess it).

Here is what he says about it:

My LIFETIME GOAL, was to actually make a bridge pickup identical in every way to Roy Buchanan's 53 Tele he nicknamed Nancy.

The pickup in his Nancy never would give up a ohm reading. This baffled us for years and years... But it’s not uncommon for a pickup to fail and suddenly lose its entire bass. I used to get calls about pickups doing that in the field and we would offer replacements. The common complaint was this: "All the bass is gone and now it sounds treble-y ~ and now I can’t get any ohm readings ~ yet it’s still working, but it’s a total treble bomb"

In 2007, when I was allowed to play Nancy and go "under her hood" to take readings, etc., I found there was no ohm reading from the bridge. So I recorded some clips www.roybuchanan.org click on ( Music)

That’s me testing Nancy with the owner because he thought something was wrong and it needed to be fixed... LOL. By the way, Nancy's Christy Auction House value is currently at $600K. The majority of the interest in obtaining her is that sound of hers. Just listen to my clip. She was unique. There’s no way to debunk that! It’s because of that failing pickup, and the neck was nicely spec-ed from the factory.



But for 4 years steady I’ve chased that sound. Got close using alternative components, etc., and have made revisions to my product with every new break-thru.

But deep down inside I wanted to know just what happened inside Nancy’s pickup and duplicate it perfectly without adding a thing. I just wanted to recreate it perfectly- Clone it, or make a Twin Sister! That was my Life-Time Goal that I wanted to achieve in this life!

WHY?.... just because Nancy is often thought of as the best sounding Telecaster® that there ever was... need I say more? She’s super important, that voice of hers needed to be recreated, and it was my mission to hopefully do just that and then offer it to those who wanted it dearly. Just like I once needed it dearly when I decided to sport a band that just did Roy’s tunes. BUCK CANNON BAND.
Click to expand...

Source: http://www.buckcannon.com/telesetsbridges.html

IOW: if the wire is broken and reacts "capacitively", what you're complaining about is sought after by some folks. :-))

So, IF I was in the same situation, maybe I'd try another bridge PU but I'd keep the bridge model as it is...

Now, do what you want and be happy. Good luck! :-)
 
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Re: PUP Suggestions for my 1958 Tele?

DinoTrousers said:
the bridge seems to be busted. I get only treble through it, to the point that the tone acts like a second volume on it, and it doesn't read on a voltmeter.
Click to expand...

Where exactly are you touching your meter probes to take readings?

The first thing that I would try on your guitar is a non-greasy electro-lubricant spray on the selector switch contacts. The bent metal contact leaves can wear or bend out of shape sufficiently that continuity becomes, at best, intermittent.

Photographs of the current wiring in your guitar might help.
 
Re: PUP Suggestions for my 1958 Tele?

Thanks for all the replies! Checked the circuit. It's all wired-up correctly to Dark Circuit standards, with an added ground under the bridgeplate. The reason that the tone acts like a volume on the bridge is not because it is a volume, but because it is only rolling off high end, and that's literally all that the bridge pick up puts out, so it creates an interesting symptom. Good call on replacing the electronics first, then the pickup, though. I believe my problem is isolated, but it's worth a shot, right?

As to where I took the reading, I took it in several locations. First, I plugged in a cable and checked the tip vs sleeve (which is how I read the neck pick up). When that didn't register, I went to the jack. When that didn't register, I went to where the pick up itself meets the switch/ground. I stopped short of pulling off the bridge and checking at the base of the pick up itself. I've tried contact cleaner to no avail.

I should note that I do work in a guitar shop that happens to be a Duncan dealer, so there's a good bit of why I'm leaning toward Duncan (on top of being one of the top pick up manufacturers for decades).

I've looked at the circuit with two other techs, and we haven't found an issue, but by all means, if you guys think of something we might of missed, I would love to hear it!

And, lastly, pictures!
You'll notice it's black. When the 58's were blonde. The first thing my dad and his brothers did when the got it was strip off the finish, and have it professionally repainted at an autobody shop (So it's nitro, and likely the same exact black Fender used). There's a bit of electrical tape on the lead from the neck pickup where the cut it in the 60's when they disassembled it to be painted. It's a solid connection, so I haven't felt the need to change it.

IMG_2117.jpgIMG_2110.jpgIMG_2114.jpgIMG_2115.jpgIMG_2116.jpg
 
Re: PUP Suggestions for my 1958 Tele?

Shouldn't Seymour be able to do something on par with Mare/Klein, etc. from the Custom Shop? Just curious...
 
Re: PUP Suggestions for my 1958 Tele?

As the one guy said above, what you describe can happen when there is a shorted coil. I actually have worked on a '62 Strat with exactly that problem; it did exactly what you are describing. It happens when coil wires rub together, or otherwise get crusty, over time, wearing through the insulation. The insulation on two adjacent coil turns is compromised, and it creates an electrical path from one winding to another, where there shouldn't be one. Thus it does not "kill" the pickup, but it does make it act funny – most noticeably when you use the tone knob. There is no way to fix it other than rewinding the pickup.

IMO, a repaired original pickup, documented repaired by a reputable restorer like Seymour Duncan, is better than an "original" pickup sitting in a box. While he can't use the original wire (because who knows where it the insulation is screwed up on it), he can wind it with the same number of turns as the original, by counting the coil windings as he unwinds the coil.

The pickup must be disconnected from the circuit to get useful multimeter readings from it. If it is a short, you'll read low resistance.
 
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Re: PUP Suggestions for my 1958 Tele?

Send it to Lindy Fralin for repair or rewind. If you call his shop you can talk to him. I doubt you can get Mr. duncan on the phone...
 
Re: PUP Suggestions for my 1958 Tele?

I do appreciate the input on rewinding the pick up, but I think I'm just going to swap it for now. After all, I can always swap it back out, but I can't undo a rewind. And although it currently doesn't function as it should, I would rather keep it original and intact until I'm positive that's the direction I want to go.
 
Re: PUP Suggestions for my 1958 Tele?

Seeing how it's your dad's telecaster, I doubt that you have much interest in it's resale value. I say go for it; change the pickup.

I have no experience with the telecaster antiquity pickups, but the strat and humbucker ants. are fantastic. I can only assume they would sound better in 50+ year old wood. I think they'd be your best bang for buck. You work at a seymour duncan dealer for one, maybe you can get some discount on top of that. Single coil ants. are suppose to be wound by either seymour himself or MJ in the custom shop. If the antiquity doesn't work for you, then look into a truly custom shop order, boutique winder, or a rewind using all the vintage material.

Evan Skopp said:
Antiquity single coils are hand wound (and assembled) in the custom shop. The reason is that's the way the original Fender pickups were made -- hand wound.
Click to expand...
 
Re: PUP Suggestions for my 1958 Tele?

if you are going to swap the bridge pup then id suggest one of the antiquitys if you dont want to spend too much. if you are willing to spend more then i would call the duncan custom shop and have them make you a pup.
 
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