Put a JB in my LP Traditional, and not happy... Need suggestions!

[d-shep]

Re: Put a JB in my LP Traditional, and not happy... Need suggestions!

I speak up on JB's when people recommend them as a first choice for a mahogany/warm-toned guitar. The guy should know that it could work well, as many do, or it could fail in a spectacular fashion, as many do. Then they can make their decision. If it doesn't sound anywhere near what they expected, they aren't blind-sided. If it's an experienced forum member, they probably know how to fix any potential issues with magnets and pots, so I'm not as concerned. If it's a newbie, which it usually is

I think many fail to realize, Seymour Duncan recommends these in mahogany/rosewood guitars, as #1 choice. Now, to make things clear, I'm no newb. I've been buying/selling/playing for more than 30 years. I've had JB's on several occasions, and they've always been hit/miss. I took a gamble, because I couldn't get a chrome-covered Custom ASAP. I used the JB in a Dean Soltero, a mahogany/maple top, rosewood, and it sounded phenominal. Had one in a Jackson Dinky, (stock from Japan), and I hated it! And a host of others. Used SH6's in two Gibsons - a Flying V, and a Les Paul Studio - It shined in the Studio, did well in the V, but wore out it's welcome. Lots recommend the Dimarzio Super Distortion in Les Pauls as well, but my one and only experience wasn't good. I HATED that pickup! Again, subjective.

I also have a Les Paul Classic Plus, and I just put a Zebra Custom/Jazz set in, and it's fantastic! So, we all hear different. The JB wasn't my first choice, the Custom was, in this instance. I'm even considering a Distortion in this case as well, for it's increased highs, but increased mids sometimes gets overbearing in a Marshall, but I suppose could be EQ'd.

So, I certainly didn't come here to start a debate, or pissing contest on the JB. Was just looking for advice, and experience. This is NOT your average Les Paul. It's the first Gibson USA/Non-Custom Shop that has no weight-relief, or chambering, produced in over 30 years. It's a heavy beast, and has an extremely warm character. The JB would likely shine in my other Les Paul, my guess. It's 8.5lbs, the Traditional is nearly 10.5.

 

[jaybonitrane]

Re: Put a JB in my LP Traditional, and not happy... Need suggestions!

Dude you got a heavy one!
Ill have burstbucker pro in mine and a small marshall amp and ill tune it HiFi and smoke that mofo till it explodes. LMAO

So now that you said that...do not put alnico 8 anything in your guitar at all.

A2 mags hot wind in neck for the low crunch that you wanted.
A5 mags in bridge. JB is A5 but not wound hot enough for you. Get overwound to 8.5

Do not get Blackouts...but you would like the full Slash set with no covers.

EMG 85 might be right for you as well.
And Lundgren will be tight as hell and very expensive..need new tone pots
And lastly...check out SD Dagzul Pegasus on you tube.

The rest must be in the amp selection.

** and 57 Classic is the source of your disappointment..absolutely must go.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Put a JB in my LP Traditional, and not happy... Need suggestions!

I certainly didn't come here to start a debate, or pissing contest on the JB.

You didn't. No need to apologize. The JB debate has been going on before I started here 8 years ago. Your experiences are typical; it's very fussy about the guitars and woods it's in, and when it doesn't like them, there's nothing subtle about it.

 

[Farkus]

Re: Put a JB in my LP Traditional, and not happy... Need suggestions!

I have played guitar for about 25 years but mostly Strats and Teles. So when I had this issue of a muddy sounding Les Paul Traditional I thought maybe I got a bad one or something; I just can't get a gain sound that I like. If I keep the gain light enough, it stays well defined. As soon as I add some more gain, what I'd consider moderate, it's mud city. I have a Jazz/JB Antiquity set I considered trying in it, but after reading this I'm going to hold off.

I was thinking my next move would be a 500K pot/wiring upgrade all around and leaving the classics in. Now, I'm just gonna order a more likely to work set and this thread is giving me options, so thanks to all.

FWIW I am a big fan of the JB in a superstrat.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Put a JB in my LP Traditional, and not happy... Need suggestions!

I have played guitar for about 25 years but mostly Strats and Teles. So when I had this issue of a muddy sounding Les Paul Traditional...

After playing Fenders for decades, LP's are going to sound thick and muddy, as Zhang says, and when you go the other way, from LP's to Fenders, he says they sound like mosquitoes.

 

[jaybonitrane]

Re: Put a JB in my LP Traditional, and not happy... Need suggestions!

Mud city with a JB ?????
That is unusual. Winding it hotter could make it worse.

That narrows it down though....

1 full slash set with no covers and 500k pots.

 

[Farkus]

Re: Put a JB in my LP Traditional, and not happy... Need suggestions!

After playing Fenders for decades, LP's are going to sound thick and muddy, as Zhang says, and when you go the other way, from LP's to Fenders, he says they sound like mosquitoes.

You're right on about that and I agree 100%, and this is important to understand, especially for the uninitiated. But in my post I said 'mostly'; I do have experience with other guitars, including Gibsons, just not specifically with LP Traditional model. I find the one in my possession to be darker than most other LP's that I've played on.

Appreciate the feedback man, thanks.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Put a JB in my LP Traditional, and not happy... Need suggestions!

Only got about halfway thought the comments, but I had a JB in my LP and I loved the lead tones but detested the heavy rhythm tones. Custom is a perfect rhythm machine for me.

 

[marcello252]

Re: Put a JB in my LP Traditional, and not happy... Need suggestions!

Only got about halfway thought the comments, but I had a JB in my LP and I loved the lead tones but detested the heavy rhythm tones. Custom is a perfect rhythm machine for me.

the same feeling I have on JB in every guitar I placed it on, killer for lead, quite good but sometimes not enough for rhythm (I'm talking about bolt on and glued in neck in mahogany, alder, basswood and ash bodies, Itried it everywhere)

 

[Grindspine]

Re: Put a JB in my LP Traditional, and not happy... Need suggestions!

I have a 2013 non-weight relieved LP Traditional, and the stock '57 Classic Plus was not doing it for me. This guitar has SERIOUS mass, and a baseball bat thick '59 rounded profile, giving it a naturally warm, bass-heavy tone. The stock '57 was spongy, and too "polite", if that makes sense. I'm after a more aggressive tone, needless to say, and more clarity. The JB has the punch, has the aggression, but also a fizzy character, and lacks the clarity I was after. I've used the Distortions in a V, and a LP Studio faded. I also initially wanted to try the Custom, but the JB was readily available in the chrome cover. Well, again, I'm just not digging it.... My lead tones are SICK, but rhythm tones lack clarity, and that's first & foremost. Think Jon Schaffer, Iced Earth rhythm tone! I do play a variety, but TIGHT, CRUSHING, CLEAR rhythm tone is a MUST, since I mostly play metal, from 80's thrash to Drop-D tuning, as well as Gary Moore-type lead tones.

So, what next? How much does keeping the stock neck pickup effect my tone, since I'm primarily on the bridge pickup?

Look for a pickup based on a ceramic magnet. A Custom or Distortion should give you what you seek.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Put a JB in my LP Traditional, and not happy... Need suggestions!

I find the one in my possession to be darker than most other LP's that I've played on.

That happens. Some guys have bright LP's. Wood varies, which is why the same PU can be put in 5 guitars of the same model, and sound different in in each one. Because of variations in grain, density, mineral content, water content, etc, no two pieces of wood are identical. A source of frustration to many, as you can never be sure of how any given PU will sound it, hence tens of thousands of threads here about that, from both pleased players and disappointed ones. As long as your PU's wind is in the ball park for what you what to play, you can usually dial it in with a combination of magnets, pots, or resistors. If you don't tweak like that, you may buy and sell a number of PU's before you find one that matches your wood the way you want it to.

Unlikely as it first sounded to me, A2, UOA5, and A8 magnets in a JB can actually improve it's tones in a warm guitar. The EQ curve gets shifted down: the harsh 'ice pick spike' disappears, the middle fills in, and the loose low end isn't an issue. It would be nice if Duncan had a second or third version of JB's with different magnets, like they did with Customs. That way many more players could buy a stock JB that works for their guitar.

 

[marcello252]

Re: Put a JB in my LP Traditional, and not happy... Need suggestions!

Unlikely as it first sounded to me, A2, UOA5, and A8 magnets in a JB can actually improve it's tones in a warm guitar

Has anybody tried a ceramic? (the thinner type, the type used in the Custom)

 

[jaybonitrane]

Re: Put a JB in my LP Traditional, and not happy... Need suggestions!

But there's no way around the fact that he's still got 12lbs of mahogany...possibly with 6% water trapped in there and the glue and the finish.

A2P hottest wind possible is the best he can do to stay fast and crunchy.
That would be the Slash set with no covers.

The only time I use a heavy LP is for HiFi lead tones...and never try to chunk down on the low end. I just switch guitars and record the chunky part separately.

 

[Soulcrusher_X]

Re: Put a JB in my LP Traditional, and not happy... Need suggestions!

But there's no way around the fact that he's still got 12lbs of mahogany...possibly with 6% water trapped in there and the glue and the finish.

A2P hottest wind possible is the best he can do to stay fast and crunchy.
That would be the Slash set with no covers.

The only time I use a heavy LP is for HiFi lead tones...and never try to chunk down on the low end. I just switch guitars and record the chunky part separately.

Also depends on the amp. In my LP, which is very bright and snappy for a Les Paul, despite being 12lbs or more, the JB was a great match with some of my amps, but not with others. It SHINED with my Boogie MarkIII and my Splawn Quickrod, but those amps are very open-toned, not really compressed. With My Rectos and PV JSX, the JB just sounded blah. Leads were great, but it started feeling sloppy with quick rhythms.

If the amps he uses have a decent amount of compression, then the JB may mud up the tones.

 

[VHTJay]

Re: Put a JB in my LP Traditional, and not happy... Need suggestions!

Has anybody tried a ceramic? (the thinner type, the type used in the Custom)

I have, but not in a Les Paul. I really liked it! Sounded like a jb with tighter, more aggressive lows and a bit more output. I will also say, that although I hear the lineage between the jb and distortion, a jb with a ceramic from a Custom didn't sound like a "distortion lite" to me. I have also tried the ceramic from a Custom in a Screamin 'Demon with good results!

 

[d-shep]

Re: Put a JB in my LP Traditional, and not happy... Need suggestions!

I find the one in my possession to be darker than most other LP's that I've played on.

BINGO! ME TOO! This thing is a BEAST! I'm even debating on other Gibson pick-ups, like a 498T.

 

[d-shep]

Re: Put a JB in my LP Traditional, and not happy... Need suggestions!

Only got about halfway thought the comments, but I had a JB in my LP and I loved the lead tones but detested the heavy rhythm tones. Custom is a perfect rhythm machine for me.

It works VERY well in my LP Classic, which is weight-relieved. However, being a 7/10 on the bass scale, as opposed to the 5/10 of the JB makes me nervous. Will it turn it into a tight, more pronounced bass, or have way too much, and make a bass-heavy guitar worse? That's the million-dollar question. It's between that, and an SH6.

 

[Farkus]

Re: Put a JB in my LP Traditional, and not happy... Need suggestions!

Well, after a little digging through my parts drawer I found that I have a few unused pickups to try. I'm moving cross country in the next 2 weeks, so it has to wait a bit, but here's what I've got:

A2 Pro neck
PG neck
Jazz neck (Ant)
Custom bridge
PG bridge
JB bridge (Ant)
Custom 5
WCR Darkburst set

When I get time I'm going to get some nice 500k pots and try some of them out. What would be the highest yield combos (most likely to work)?

FYI my amps at this point are a Mesa Dual Rec, DSL 100 watt, and a YJM 100.

 

[jaybonitrane]

Re: Put a JB in my LP Traditional, and not happy... Need suggestions!

It works VERY well in my LP Classic, which is weight-relieved. However, being a 7/10 on the bass scale, as opposed to the 5/10 of the JB makes me nervous. Will it turn it into a tight, more pronounced bass, or have way too much, and make a bass-heavy guitar worse? That's the million-dollar question. It's between that, and an SH6.

Worse? That would be a matter of personal opinion. It will make your bass heavy guitar deep, fat, slow, and chewy.
And Pearlies would be even more so...but some people like it and they don't chunk through the bottom end either.
Paypal the 1 million $ to my email asap.

When you sing an E note down a cave the echo has a lag time before it comes back and collides with your singing. If the frequency matches it will double or amplify...and it looses energy during the journey so when it comes back it will be slightly flat compared to the note that you're still singing...f you let your voice dip as soon as it comes back they will have the same frequency and get loud. That's 2 equal notes coming into your ear instead of one plus the resonance. Or you could pre sharp the note being sent and it would come back in tune and then sing the note in perfect pitch when it arrives and it will double. A deeper cave will increase the lag time and the echo will come back a little more flat.

If you follow that...Lets talk about your guitar and the way you have to play it.

The vibrations that you make with the chords for example A...travel through the guitar and come back to the strings eventually...that's like the echo.
On a thin body guitar with a thin paint job the lag time is almost zero. Man this thing is snappy fierce and tighter than onion rings!
On an R9 with heavy candy lacquer the vibrations have to travel through more wood and through the glue and the lacquer before getting back on the string and all that traveling the echo lost some energy. When the chord is repeated several times and if its squeezed properly it starts to double and reinforce itself. Man this thing sounds great.... when its rockin.
Now your guitar is even more heavy and 6% moisture...the lag time and loss of energy is finally catching up to you.
When the sound gets back on the string its lost a little to much energy and the lag time was to much...you're now 5 notes down the road when your A finally comes back and 2 cents flat...Man this thing sounds muddy!

There.

Its actually sluggish but turns muddy if you don't manipulate the echo. You could play triplets and send the vibration out three times instead of once that works for some players and the echo comes back and harmonizes with itself between the second and third strike. It starts to pick up a vibe and a groove and ride it!

A set of articulate crispy pups such as the Slash set will be fast enough that you wont have to wait for the echo to come back or you can do like some people do...scoop out the bottom end so the echo will not be as noticable and play all HIFI solos.

The JB is not actually muddy here...and you still have 57C draining some of the punch out of your JB.