Putting delay pedal in front of an overdriven amp - Yuck!

Dr. Lo

Dr. Lo

New member
I have a great sounding Orange Tiny Terror that I'd like to play my Boss DD-5 digital delay through. Because there's no effects loop, I have to place the pedal before the amp's input, which results in a rather harsh sounding delay. It's a lot harsher than when I run my OCD distortion pedal before my DD-5, which then goes to a clean tube amp. With my current Tiny Terror set up, where I'm cranking the amp's gain like crazy, the repeats are too loud and seem to lack smoothness. If I lower the DD-5's level control too such a extent that I eliminate the harshness, I can barely hear the repeats.

So, how can I (inexpensively) emulate the sound of placing my delay pedal AFTER the amp's overdrive without having an effects loop? Are there some delay pedals that are better suited to this set up than the DD-5?
 
Re: Putting delay pedal in front of an overdriven amp - Yuck!

I think Morley makes an effects blender. It has a send and return, and you control how much of the effect loop is blended with the dry signal with a pedal that resembles a wah. This might help...


Dr. Lo said:
I have a great sounding Orange Tiny Terror that I'd like to play my Boss DD-5 digital delay through. Because there's no effects loop, I have to place the pedal before the amp's input, which results in a rather harsh sounding delay. It's a lot harsher than when I run my OCD distortion pedal before my DD-5, which then goes to a clean tube amp. With my current Tiny Terror set up, where I'm cranking the amp's gain like crazy, the repeats are too loud and seem to lack smoothness. If I lower the DD-5's level control too such a extent that I eliminate the harshness, I can barely hear the repeats.

So, how can I (inexpensively) emulate the sound of placing my delay pedal AFTER the amp's overdrive without having an effects loop? Are there some delay pedals that are better suited to this set up than the DD-5?
Click to expand...
 
Re: Putting delay pedal in front of an overdriven amp - Yuck!

Dr. Lo said:
So, how can I (inexpensively) emulate the sound of placing my delay pedal AFTER the amp's overdrive without having an effects loop? Are there some delay pedals that are better suited to this set up than the DD-5?
Click to expand...

Buy an overdrive pedal that sounds similar to or works well with your amp and place it before your delay pedal and keep your amp on clean.

W/out an effects loop and playing with distortion it's difficult to really utilize a delay pedal the way it was meant to be used.
 
Re: Putting delay pedal in front of an overdriven amp - Yuck!

Try turning down the E. Level control on the delay so you're not mixing as much of the delay into the signal. That might help some.
 
Re: Putting delay pedal in front of an overdriven amp - Yuck!

Unless I'm looking for that sound (which usually I'm not), I really need my delay after my gain.
 
Re: Putting delay pedal in front of an overdriven amp - Yuck!

Ok guys, I guess I'm going to just accept the fact that I won't be using my delay pedal with that amp 'cause I'm certainly not modding my amp. Oh well. I guess I can ask the sound guy at my next gig to add echo/delay to my sound using effects built into the the board.
 
Re: Putting delay pedal in front of an overdriven amp - Yuck!

just get a new pedal

people put delays infront of their dirty amp for years, it can sound good
 
Re: Putting delay pedal in front of an overdriven amp - Yuck!

drew_half_empty said:
people put delays infront of their dirty amp for years, it can sound good
Click to expand...

That was kinda my point. I saw George Lynch last month and he was using his new Lynch Box amp, in front of it he had a TMB Lynch Pedal, a Dejavibe, a wah, and a Boss DDx (don't recal which one). He had the TMB on pretty much all the time, but he had the DD in front of his amp too, he sounded pretty good.
 
Re: Putting delay pedal in front of an overdriven amp - Yuck!

Delay can sound quite good in front of a distorting tube amp. In my experience, you have to use an analog or analog-simulating digital delay, and keep the amp in overdrive or crunch territory. To get full-on smooth saturation you have to put a distortion/overdrive pedal in front of the delay. Actually, that's my secret to getting sweet distortion sounds from about any tube amp. The OD/dist provides the bark and the amp provides the richness and character. There's always a sweet spot on the tube amp, and it's often cleaner than what I want. Add gain though, and it gets mushy. That's where a pedal comes in. They're normally somewhat harsh and/or fizzy, which complements the amp perfectly.
 
Re: Putting delay pedal in front of an overdriven amp - Yuck!

devastone said:
That was kinda my point. I saw George Lynch last month and he was using his new Lynch Box amp, in front of it he had a TMB Lynch Pedal, a Dejavibe, a wah, and a Boss DDx (don't recal which one). He had the TMB on pretty much all the time, but he had the DD in front of his amp too, he sounded pretty good.
Click to expand...
Lynch doesn't use a ton of gain. His tone is actually pretty clean.
And are you sure the delay wasn't in the effects loop?

If you put a delay in front of an overdriven amp, it's gonna give you the same effect as playing multiple notes into the amp. If the note you're playing and the note your delay is repeating are a fourth or fifth apart, it'll sound like a power chord. If they're a second or third or some other interval apart, you will get some beating, and on higher gain settings, especially on solid state amps, it'll sound all trashy.

Unless you're going for that effect, the delay has to go after the distortion/overdrive. No way around it. Using less gain will clean it up somewhat.
 
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Re: Putting delay pedal in front of an overdriven amp - Yuck!

All George's pedals were in front of the amp when he played here last year. The Cusack Screamer was kicked in for about half of the set, but, even when it wasn't and all the gain came from the amp it sounded sweet - couldn't stop thinking "how can he get such a good tone that way?", but he did!
 
Re: Putting delay pedal in front of an overdriven amp - Yuck!

I like to delay my view of the World after I've distorted it to hell!

Couldn't resist.
 
Re: Putting delay pedal in front of an overdriven amp - Yuck!

It can sound good. Listen to some Ted Leo. He uses an EP-4 and he always plays through a distorted amp. When he turns the EP-4 on, he can play that thing like nothing I've ever heard before. It's truly incredible what he does with that sometimes.
 
Re: Putting delay pedal in front of an overdriven amp - Yuck!

In the 70s when most amps didn't have effects loops it was common to run a tape echo in front of a distorted tube amp. Some people even used the echo unit's level control to achieve more gain into the amp's input.

So it can work, with a bit of tweaking.

An analog delay or a digital unit with a tape echo simulation will probably sound best. I can get a pretty good sound running my Line6 Echo Park on the tape echo setting into the front of my Marshall JMP 2204 or Jubilee 2553.

You will need to change the settings from how you would have them if the echo/delay was in the loop or after a distortion pedal. Start with everything low and experiment.
 
Re: Putting delay pedal in front of an overdriven amp - Yuck!

Kosh Naranek said:
Lynch doesn't use a ton of gain. His tone is actually pretty clean.
And are you sure the delay wasn't in the effects loop?
Click to expand...

He uses plenty of gain, but not death metal type gain, and yes, I'm sure it wasn't in the loop. He was set up at a weekend seminar he put on (not the Sam Ash clinic), he hung out, let us play with his toys, so I got to see his stuff up close. He wasn't using the Cusack Screamer, he was using his TMB, and his delay was in line with a couple other pedals in front of a Randall Lynch Box, I think he was playing the Brahma module mostly, can't say exactly, I wasn't paying that much attention.

My experience with delays is that in front of an amp you have to set the level or mix to a much lower level. I also don't really use really short delay times, I like a little separation. GL uses longer delays too, more than 200ms, so no slapback type sounds. In my Trace head with a footswitchable loop, I have the delay in the loop, with older Marshall type amps or the Crate Powerblock I practice with, I just put it in front. The PB has gain more like an old Marshall, it doesn't get super saturated, so it works fine.

Maybe that's the key, if you run a delay in front of a super saturated "metal" sounding amp, it probably does sound pretty bad, in front of a clean or crunchy amp, they seem to work pretty well. FWIW, I run everything else in front of the amp, including phasers, flangers, and choruses. I like the way they sound pushing the distortion rather than the other way around, I grew up on VH, and on clean settings it doesn't seem to matter that much.

Way < $0.02,
-R
 
Re: Putting delay pedal in front of an overdriven amp - Yuck!

Ok they say there are no dumb questions so here goes. I always get confused about which effect is front of which . If I`m coming out of the amp into a delay pedal then into a distortion pedal then into the guitar is the delay in front of the distortion or behind it?
 
Re: Putting delay pedal in front of an overdriven amp - Yuck!

You want the distortion in front (closer to the guitar) of the delay.
 
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