Q: So that ol' Pagey LP tone

Re: Q: So that ol' Pagey LP tone

lazyfinger said:
Very good point! While I agree with you overall, but if trying to figure out the subtlety wasn't name of the game, then what are we doing at this board? Seymour would've just made 1 pafs and called it a day, or distortion bucker for the metal heads, and that's it. Everything would then rely on getting the right amps, pedals, etc, combo to get different tones. And that means no more EVH threads or 20 different pickups designed to nail his early tone or his late and whatever in between, one would've sufficed.
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In that sense you're right, there would be no point in trying to determine the subtleties. All I'm suggesting is that the particular examples chosen are not going to help us identify what those are. Each of the variables mentioned are going to give us a +/-/= ve, but we have no way of knowing in what direction or extent they apply to the question. To do that, a more controlled environment is required. I understand what you are trying to seek though. As you say, it's the reason most of us ended up here in the first place.
 
Re: Q: So that ol' Pagey LP tone

Falloffthebonetone said:
Not a contradiction, my point was ON PAPER it would be close as the 57 or BB would be the closest sound to the stock pafs on gibsons back then, BUT I also mentioned that stock gibson pickups sounded radically different from each other back then and while the 57 and BB are designed like the pickup that would've been stock, the actual stock pickup could've sounded different. I then went on to recommend the WLH. This is called context.

Also who knows, maybe Page got most of his treble from the amp instead? Could happen.

Edit* I have found a lot of sources saying that he actually did keep his treble on his marshalls in the early 70s at 9 or 10, so fully cranked.
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your point about paper is pretty useless in the real world. the 57 classic is not gonna be good for getting pagey tones or at least not as good as a wlh which is what the op was asking. the 59 would be a better option than the 57. the 57 isnt a bad pup but i sure dont like it as much as the bb1/2 which are the best pups gibsons made in a long long time.
 
Re: Q: So that ol' Pagey LP tone

jeremy said:
your point about paper is pretty useless in the real world. the 57 classic is not gonna be good for getting pagey tones or at least not as good as a wlh which is what the op was asking. the 59 would be a better option than the 57. the 57 isnt a bad pup but i sure dont like it as much as the bb1/2 which are the best pups gibsons made in a long long time.
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Facepalm...... Which is why I recommended the WLH. Nobody bothers to read anymore or something.
 
Re: Q: So that ol' Pagey LP tone

jeremy said:
the bb1/2 which are the best pups gibsons made in a long long time.
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+1. Why aren't they in more Gibson models? They have '57's, BBP's, and 498T/490R's in almost everything, and none of those are anything to brag about. Certainly not worthy of high end guitars.
 
Re: Q: So that ol' Pagey LP tone

Okay. Suppose that I type it out as W||O? Now, does it make sense?
 
Re: Q: So that ol' Pagey LP tone

esandes said:
not from the clips i've listened to. the gibson 57 classic pickup is a force to be reckoned with. solid tone and a good sensitivity to attack.
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I don't really rate you tube clips as a good indicator of how any piece of gear will sound or feel when its part of my rig. Everyone plays a little differently, we all have divergent repertoires and our preferences for wood, strings, amps and speaker are all different. You tube clips are also usually poorly recorded and more often than not played by pretty amateur sounding players. There are the odd few good clips, but they are few and far between and usually the repertoire and gear is very different to what i like to use. I know typed words are pretty hit and miss tho too, so in the end it comes down to players to try stuff out for themselves.
Having said that, in my experience of gibson 57's (i have two guitars that came built with them as stock), i'd say that they are the weakest link in the chain of gibson guitars. I have tried quite a lot of different vintage paf style pickups with various magnets in both of these guitars, and there wasn't a single one that did not make the 57's sound anaemic, asthmatic and generally uninspiring to play by comparison. I've even tried mag swapping and trying them in other axes (i.e. a strat) that you would not normally expect to hear them installed in.
Gibson 57's?
Not for me thanks. They are pretty much the reason i got interested in Seymour Duncan pickups in the first place.
 
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Re: Q: So that ol' Pagey LP tone

gibson175 said:
I don't really rate you tube clips as a good indicator of how any piece of gear will sound or feel when its part of my rig. Everyone plays a little differently, we all have divergent repertoires and our preferences for wood, strings, amps and speaker are all different. You tube clips are also usually poorly recorded and more often than not played by pretty amateur sounding players. There are the odd few good clips, but they are few and far between and usually the repertoire and gear is very different to what i like to use. I know typed words are pretty hit and miss tho too, so in the end it comes down to players to try stuff out for themselves.
Having said that, in my experience of gibson 57's (i have two guitars that came built with them as stock), i'd say that they are the weakest link in the chain of gibson guitars. I have tried quite a lot of different vintage paf style pickups with various magnets in both of these guitars, and there wasn't a single one that did not make the 57's sound anaemic, asthmatic and generally uninspiring to play by comparison. I've even tried mag swapping and trying them in other axes (i.e. a strat) that you would not normally expect to hear them installed in.
Gibson 57's?
Not for me thanks. They are pretty much the reason i got interested in Seymour Duncan pickups in the first place.
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a clip of the pickup by itself is useless, yes. but when there are a/b/c/d comparisons in the same guitar with the same settings and microphone placements there can be some value taken away from it. even first hand reviews can be taken with a grain of salt for the same reasons you listed and for the lack of "experience" or "good perception" of the reviewer. deciding on pickups must be the most challenging aspect of being a tone junkie. i have taken your review of the 57 into account and i'll continue on my search for the most perfect PAF style pickup. i like transparency, clarity, sustain, proper attack sensitivity (ie no mud when playing a chord gently), good harmonics, balance of tones. what i don't like is for the pickup to color the tone of the guitar. i keep hearing good things about the seths but they don't have a wax potting and i'm afraid it will just squeal. what are your favorite PAFs?
 
Re: Q: So that ol' Pagey LP tone

Jimmy's tone changes a LOT over the years. the RAH tone is pretty awesomely nuts, but i think its mostly the amps, IE you can put any pickup you want in the guitar, but you aren't going to get THAT kind of tone without the amp (or pedal)

the later you get the cleaner his tone gets though, so it actually gets easier, and you just need any old PAF kind of pickup
 
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