Quality gear... who knew?

[JB_From_Hell]

First off, I apologize for repeated posts about my new Strat. I'm just REALLY fired up about it

In the past, setting up a guitar always took me quite a few tries to get right. Maxed out truss rods, less than stellar fret work, etc... The stuff I ended up sticking with were the gems of the cheap bunch. They sound good and I could get them playing well enough.

Fast forward to a few days ago, and this MIA Strat has really opened my eyes to how crappy all my other stuff is. I cleaned and oiled the board, polished the frets, put on new strings, raised the action, intonated it, all in a single sitting (minus time for the uber thirsty rosewood to soak up the oil). I've never had a guitar that played so well.

Budget guitars, it was a fun ride, but it's pretty cool to be able to play every fret on the neck.

 

[Kosh Naranek]

Re: Quality gear... who knew?

The imports are better than they were many years ago when I started playing, and many use the same woods, pickups, etc, that USA guitars do.
So I can't tell you just what it is, but there is something that feels "just right", about a quality built in USA Fender, Hamer, PRS, Robin, what have you.

And there's the consistency you mentioned. Playing well on every fret. The pickups don't need to be upgraded. The bridge doesn't need to be upgraded. A tech doesn't need to sand off sharp edges on frets. The tuners don't need to be upgraded. Etc.

 

[Kosh Naranek]

Re: Quality gear... who knew?

Among recording enthusiasts, you'll hear them talk a lot about the difference in audio quality that you get using a high end microphone into a high end mic preamp, and then on to a high end A/D converter.
All true. But I've found that possibly the greatest improvement in audio quality is plugging a really good guitar into a really good amp, and you'll hear the difference even through modest home studio gear.

 

[d1dsj]

Re: Quality gear... who knew?

Yep, a guitar worth £/ $ 3000 is not necessarily going to be 10 x as good as a £/ $ 300 guitar but there is a difference and its up to us to decide whether the extra outlay is worth it. I'm in the camp that says it is and generally I get a little fed up with people who say that their Epiphone knocks spots of any Gibson they've played etc etc. a good guitar is a good guitar whatever the cost, but generally you get what you pay for. Good for you that you got that Strat, onwards and upwards I say.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Quality gear... who knew?

My first guitar was an Epiphone dot. Over the years it has needed a full setup, new pickups, bridge, switch, tailpiece, pots, tuners, a nut, and it eventually became a lovely guitar to play that I'd put up against any Gibson in terms of sound or playability. That said, I wouldn't go the same route again. There's some stuff that can't be changed that would be cool to have . . . no binding on the neck, some minor finish flaws, the name on the headstock. I contrast it with my North American guitars, and it took a hell of a lot longer to get to the point where I love it. In retrospect it probably would have been about the same price and a lot easier to just buy what I wanted to begin with.

Sometimes you have to learn these things on your own though.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Quality gear... who knew?

I too started off with budget guitars. I bought a couple of better ones and after getting used to them, found the budget ones didn't quite cut the Dijon anymore. I still have the odd cheap part (a CV squier body and trem), but for the most part I do select wood now.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Quality gear... who knew?

Over the past 30+ years, I've owned a LOT of import gear. Most of it was very good for the money. But when you step up to "the good stuff" you see improvements of varying degrees. Some import gear is actually better than some high end domestic stuff. But mostly you do get what you pay for. My collecting juices aren't flowing much any more. I'd rather have a couple top tier instruments than a whole room full of dime-a-dozen imports. My Tom Anderson Drop Top Classic has spoiled me rotten scratching the Strat itch. I dumped my American Deluxe Strat after the Anderson showed up... not because it wasn't a great guitar or because I'm a brand snob. But because the Anderson plays and sounds so much better that I didn't see myself playing the Fender any more. I'm working on trading my [much liked] 2001 Gibson LP Standard for an R0 right now. Like I said, I just find myself finally at the point that I'm tired of playing musical chairs with gear of various caliber. I just want the very best, most inspirational gear I can afford. Has nothing to do with forum cred, but everything to do with inspiration and confidence in my gear that it will never let me down... or be the weak link.

So my point is that if you're so inclined, get the best you can afford from the get-go and avoid the years and thousands of dollars wasted on instruments that may be "fine", or "good for the money"... but aren't the "love of your life", that always inspires you to be and play your best. I wish that I'd have owned about a hundred less instruments over the years, and hung onto just a few of the creme de la creme... and developed a long term relationship with them.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Quality gear... who knew?

Good for the money... This is the first guitar whose quality I don't need to qualify by the deal I got.

Ironically, it's also the best deal I've ever got

 

[measthesheriff]

Re: Quality gear... who knew?

I've always played and owned budget guitars up until this year. I played em all - Epiphones, MIM Fenders, budget Gibsons. I was finally able to buy an SG Standard and the difference in quality of build and playability (for me) is night and day.

 

[DreX]

Re: Quality gear... who knew?

Not being able to play a given fret on the neck sounds like a outright defect, or more likely, typical fret wear and tear. I wouldn't call that characteristic of all imports.

I have MIAs as well as a ton of imports, and the reality is that, with MIMs in particular, you can see evidence that less time was spend on average constructing the guitar, such as slight unevenness in finish thickness, or they made no special effort to select a flattering grain, or the body radius is uneven somewhere, but even this a random sort of issue, some of my MIMs show no signs of a rush job (at least not where it matters). The other thing is that the likelihood as to where a shortcoming will present itself is dependent upon the manufacturing processes of the particular factory where a guitar was made. I have examples of MIJs, MIMs, MIIs, and MIKs that will share certain shortcomings depending on who made them. For example, MIMs have radius and finish issues, MIJs show more variability in paint color from one guitar to the next, Korean Epis frequently feature unfinished fret work and unnecessarily thick coats of poly. The moral of the story is that every guitar is unique, for a fact, and you can make some generalizations based on the circumstances of manufacture, but the broad brushstroke domestic good/import bad is highly inaccurate. I can't even say my MIA's are all that precisely made either, but I will grant that they tend to have better looking grains on the translucent finish models, but I just picked up a MIJ walnut finish Strat with a killer Ash grain, so... they're out there.

What surprises me about guitarists saying they found the one true guitar that sounded good, and sold everything else in their closet, is that a guitarist would settle for a single sound in the first place. Nobody has a lot of guitars in search of one good sound, they have many guitars in search of many sounds. To me, the real value of imports is that it weights your overall guitar budget towards diversity in all respects, diverse woods, necks, pickups, tunings, mechanics, body types, and so on. The philosophy of having a few "high end" guitars is the opposite of that, and seems to weight towards the notion that if your guitar is not overly perfect in every detail, then it's not worth owning or playing, and it seems somewhat snobbish, to be honest.

 

[LLL]

Re: Quality gear... who knew?

Yep, quality gear. And more interestingly, the perception thereof.

This goes for anything: guitars, stomps, amps, speakers, mic pres, mics, etc...


Back in '88 I had a 2x12 CRATE SS amp with built-in chorus.

I thought it was awesome and had tone for days. No one could tell me otherwise.

(of course, I had no other reference being the amp noob that I was)

Fast-forward to today - well, now I know how to build amps and I've played through countless amps.

I know now that the CRATE I used to own sounds like absolute ****.


To sum up: "don't know what ya got... til ya get something better" :lol:

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Quality gear... who knew?

Great post and congratulations on finding happiness with your new guitar!

I'm a guy who used to own a lot of imports thinking I had "diversity" in my tone and collection. Then, I found myself being able to buy a Gibson Les Paul and wow was I blown away. I didn't even touch my imports anymore, the feel, finish, build quality and inspiration it gave me was priceless. I don't think I put that guitar down for years until I started buying Warmoth guitars. As a guitarist, the best piece of equipment you could ever invest in is a guitar that begs you to play it. A guitar you never want to put down. If it wasn't for getting a guitar like that Gibson I wouldn't even be half the player I am today. I probably wouldn't even be a third of the player I am today. I'd probably still be messing with the knobs and switches on my imports while playing power chords somewhere wondering what it would be like to actually know how to play. Then, I got into Warmoths and started experimenting with woods, electronics and pickups AFTER I learned how to play which re-ignited the same passion I found in that Gibson all those years ago. The fire still burns and I can do it with 3-4 high quality axes that actually get played every day instead of having 10 imports collecting dust every day.

 

[DreX]

Re: Quality gear... who knew?

Yep, quality gear. And more interestingly, the perception thereof.

This goes for anything: guitars, stomps, amps, speakers, mic pres, mics, etc...


Back in '88 I had a 2x12 CRATE SS amp with built-in chorus.

I thought it was awesome and had tone for days. No one could tell me otherwise.

(of course, I had no other reference being the amp noob that I was)

Fast-forward to today - well, now I know how to build amps and I've played through countless amps.

I know now that the CRATE I used to own sounds like absolute ****.


To sum up: "don't know what ya got... til ya get something better" :lol:

I take issue with the idea of using terms like "quality" and "sounds better" in the same statement, because to say something is or is not quality should be absolutely true or false, but whether or not something sounds good is a matter of opinion. There was a thread not long ago about famous albums recorded with cheap gear that speaks to this.

 

[DreX]

Re: Quality gear... who knew?

Here's an old trick that I just made up: if you find that playing a guitar with improved play-ability and craftsmanship inspires you to practice more and lights your creative fire, start out with a $100 First Act guitar, get good and used to it, then buy a MIM Fender or Epiphone and brace yourself for the surge of muse that awaits. Not only is the method cheaper than spending outrageous amounts on a domestic made solid body guitar, but the step up between the First Act and the MIM or EPi is likely to be more dramatic than switching from either to it's domestic counterpart. When the high starts to wear off, rinse and repeat. Bring the First Act back out to remind your ungrateful fingers how good they have it with their finely crafted Mexican or Korean product.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Quality gear... who knew?

Don't get me wrong, my Epiphone Les Paul and Peavey Predator aren't going anywhere. Even the POS Schecter 7 string will still get played. It's just tha after 20+ years of playing cheaper stuff, it's awesome to have something this much higher quality. Especially since I didn't have to sell all of them to get this Strat.

There are plenty of cheap guitars that play well, but it's nice to finally be able to reach beyond them.

 

[some_dude]

Re: Quality gear... who knew?

What surprises me about guitarists saying they found the one true guitar that sounded good, and sold everything else in their closet, is that a guitarist would settle for a single sound in the first place. Nobody has a lot of guitars in search of one good sound, they have many guitars in search of many sounds. To me, the real value of imports is that it weights your overall guitar budget towards diversity in all respects, diverse woods, necks, pickups, tunings, mechanics, body types, and so on. The philosophy of having a few "high end" guitars is the opposite of that, and seems to weight towards the notion that if your guitar is not overly perfect in every detail, then it's not worth owning or playing, and it seems somewhat snobbish, to be honest.

Meh.

I used to believe that a well rounded guitarist should have a Strat, Tele, Les Paul and an SG...with the option for multiples so that I could have access to different pickups. As I developed my own style it affected my taste in guitars, and through experience I learned that I have little use for certain sounds. Knowing exactly what I want and that I can achieve it with a limited number of guitars allows me to weight my overall guitar budget towards quality over quantity.

In the end neither way is superior. If you want access to a hundred different sounds you're probably not going to be able to buy a hundred top end guitars so you get what you can afford... But if you only need one or two sounds it allows you to refine those specific sounds as much as possible, and you still get what you can afford.

 

[DreX]

Re: Quality gear... who knew?

On the topic of what amount of quality can be said to be necessary versus optional for a practical and enjoyable guitar, someone once mentioned how guitarists have it good when it comes to instrument costs, noting that quality big band instruments cost thousands more than even a premium guitar, but something to bear in mind is that a guitar is ultimately a couple pieces of wood with strings stretched across it. There's not really a good reason a couple pieces of wood with strings stretched across it should be expensive in the first place, and the potential to spend more money and get improved string-across-wood performance is very limited. Everyone admits that there's a point of rapidly diminishing returns, some would pin it at $1000, others at $500, but I'd say it's far lower than even that.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Quality gear... who knew?

DreX... I still have some import axes and amps. But I'm tired of gear that doesn't inspire me. I've got plenty of tools (strats, LPs, steel string acoustics, nylon string acoustics, basses, mandolins, and ukeleles). Snobbery has nothing to do with it. I've been around enough to have done many things, in many ways. I know what I want and how to best get it (for me). Nuff said...

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Quality gear... who knew?

On the topic of what amount of quality can be said to be necessary versus optional for a practical and enjoyable guitar, someone once mentioned how guitarists have it good when it comes to instrument costs, noting that quality big band instruments cost thousands more than even a premium guitar, but something to bear in mind is that a guitar is ultimately a couple pieces of wood with strings stretched across it. There's not really a good reason a couple pieces of wood with strings stretched across it should be expensive in the first place, and the potential to spend more money and get improved string-across-wood performance is very limited. Everyone admits that there's a point of rapidly diminishing returns, some would pin it at $1000, others at $500, but I'd say it's far lower than even that.

Based on your post I'm going to ASSume that you haven't spent a lot of time with higher-end gear. The pay-off is not linear generally. But there's a reason that players (not forum members just looking for forum cred) choose their high end gear when they can afford it. INSPIRATION to achieve that next level is priceless to many. Bonamassa isn't collecting '59 'bursts just for forum cred or investment purposes.

 

[DreX]

Re: Quality gear... who knew?

Knowing exactly what I want and that I can achieve it with a limited number of guitars allows me to weight my overall guitar budget towards quality over quantity.

It sounds like you mostly do original works if you're aiming for your own signature sound, maybe if a person plays more for pleasure, and noodles along in whatever genre suits the moment, then there's more of a utility in variety.