Quality gear... who knew?
- Thread starter JB_From_Hell
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GuitarStv
Sock Market Trader
Re: Quality gear... who knew?
My expectation is that more expensive guitars on the whole should be better set up and require less (ideally no) upgrading to be great instruments. They should be well made of choice woods. Picking up a random expensive brand guitar you should get more consistent, better playing guitars right off the shelf. Because they use better quality components and should be assembled with more care, they should tend to have better longevity overall. This isn't always the case (and I've seen exceptions), but by and large in my experience quality guitars live up to this.
Cheap stuff tends to be more variable. Quality control is spottier. Maybe you can find a great one, but you'll probably find a few dogs in the group. Finish quality and components tend to be selected to a price point. Can they sound and play great? Sure! But you'll often have to work harder to get them there. I've played a lot of cheap older guitars from the 70s and 60s and some of the inexpensive stuff being made today, and even the very low pirce stuff today is light years better than the old crap. Chinese labour and industry standard automated practices have really been a boon to the low priced stuff.
My 13 year old Epi Dot hangs in there in awesomeness with my US made Charvel, and they both make me happy. The Dot needed more work to get to that point though.
My expectation is that more expensive guitars on the whole should be better set up and require less (ideally no) upgrading to be great instruments. They should be well made of choice woods. Picking up a random expensive brand guitar you should get more consistent, better playing guitars right off the shelf. Because they use better quality components and should be assembled with more care, they should tend to have better longevity overall. This isn't always the case (and I've seen exceptions), but by and large in my experience quality guitars live up to this.
Cheap stuff tends to be more variable. Quality control is spottier. Maybe you can find a great one, but you'll probably find a few dogs in the group. Finish quality and components tend to be selected to a price point. Can they sound and play great? Sure! But you'll often have to work harder to get them there. I've played a lot of cheap older guitars from the 70s and 60s and some of the inexpensive stuff being made today, and even the very low pirce stuff today is light years better than the old crap. Chinese labour and industry standard automated practices have really been a boon to the low priced stuff.
My 13 year old Epi Dot hangs in there in awesomeness with my US made Charvel, and they both make me happy. The Dot needed more work to get to that point though.
DreX
New member
Re: Quality gear... who knew?
Well yeah you don't see the word "vintage" because the word "quality" has come to replace it.
"no merit"? I'll admit I wasn't aware of the buckling Tune-o-Matic issue, but Strat bridges won't have this issue, neither will the Gibson style stop tail (and if it did it wouldn't matter), but even still, an issue which may or may not arise until many decades from now isn't going to make a 'night and day' difference in the playability right now. Then there's the cost versus benefit, suppose it takes twenty years for buckling to manifest, it looks like the zinc Tune-o-Matic can be had for about $13, where as the more costly ones cost closer to $60 (metal not specified), it would take sixty to eighty years for the stronger metal part to pay for itself - in this one limited case. The point has far more merit than not.
Well yeah you don't see the word "vintage" because the word "quality" has come to replace it.
"no merit"? I'll admit I wasn't aware of the buckling Tune-o-Matic issue, but Strat bridges won't have this issue, neither will the Gibson style stop tail (and if it did it wouldn't matter), but even still, an issue which may or may not arise until many decades from now isn't going to make a 'night and day' difference in the playability right now. Then there's the cost versus benefit, suppose it takes twenty years for buckling to manifest, it looks like the zinc Tune-o-Matic can be had for about $13, where as the more costly ones cost closer to $60 (metal not specified), it would take sixty to eighty years for the stronger metal part to pay for itself - in this one limited case. The point has far more merit than not.
DreX
New member
Re: Quality gear... who knew?
There's a lot of opinion-based value judgements made: "to be great instruments", "well made of choice woods", "more consistent, better playing", "better quality components", it's just not the same as saying "these tires have better grip" "these tires result in better fuel economy", where the qualitative differences are real and measurable. As far as longevity, I guess if you have a tune-o-matic it will bend over the course of many years, but otherwise any guitar will wear out due to wear and tear. All three of my MIA's have had fret work done. IMO, all domestic electrics should have steel frets for the price point, that would matter. I'd bet that the reason cheap guitars seem to wear out quicker is because people, knowing they're cheap, willfully neglect them, and come to conflate a lack of durability with their own mistreatment of the guitar.
There's a lot of opinion-based value judgements made: "to be great instruments", "well made of choice woods", "more consistent, better playing", "better quality components", it's just not the same as saying "these tires have better grip" "these tires result in better fuel economy", where the qualitative differences are real and measurable. As far as longevity, I guess if you have a tune-o-matic it will bend over the course of many years, but otherwise any guitar will wear out due to wear and tear. All three of my MIA's have had fret work done. IMO, all domestic electrics should have steel frets for the price point, that would matter. I'd bet that the reason cheap guitars seem to wear out quicker is because people, knowing they're cheap, willfully neglect them, and come to conflate a lack of durability with their own mistreatment of the guitar.
dominus
King Midas to Cheap Guitars
Myaccount876
Amira-Maker
Re: Quality gear... who knew?
Can the mods start to enforce some sort of temporary draconian rules/punishments? This is seriously becoming way too common of an occurrence. There isn't a word in the English language to describe how stupid this flustercluck is.
Can the mods start to enforce some sort of temporary draconian rules/punishments? This is seriously becoming way too common of an occurrence. There isn't a word in the English language to describe how stupid this flustercluck is.
dominus
King Midas to Cheap Guitars
Re: Quality gear... who knew?
As someone that has owned two Mustangs (a 2008 and a 2012), a Pinto wasn't meant to be a cheaper Mustang. It was meant to be a cheaper *car*. (No, I never owned a Pinto, but an uncle of mine lived with us for a while in the early 80s and was always buying Chevy Vegas for $100 a pop and running them into the ground. A Vega wasn't a cheaper Camaro. It was in the same class as the Pinto.)
A Squier Strat is meant to be a cheaper Strat. If you get a decent Squier (and it's hard to say that the newer CVs aren't), it's only a few steps to get to it being as nice as an MIA, for less than half the price.
As someone that has owned two Mustangs (a 2008 and a 2012), a Pinto wasn't meant to be a cheaper Mustang. It was meant to be a cheaper *car*. (No, I never owned a Pinto, but an uncle of mine lived with us for a while in the early 80s and was always buying Chevy Vegas for $100 a pop and running them into the ground. A Vega wasn't a cheaper Camaro. It was in the same class as the Pinto.)
A Squier Strat is meant to be a cheaper Strat. If you get a decent Squier (and it's hard to say that the newer CVs aren't), it's only a few steps to get to it being as nice as an MIA, for less than half the price.
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dominus
King Midas to Cheap Guitars
Re: Quality gear... who knew?
I've actually found the opposite on lots of occasions. People bought the imports because they were cheap, ended up not playing them (could be just kids that lost interest) and sold them, and they're still in great condition.
I've actually found the opposite on lots of occasions. People bought the imports because they were cheap, ended up not playing them (could be just kids that lost interest) and sold them, and they're still in great condition.
DreX
New member
Re: Quality gear... who knew?
Ban people with unpopular opinions? Give a pass to the people who can't simply ignore them?
Ban people with unpopular opinions? Give a pass to the people who can't simply ignore them?
firebirdguy72
안전놀이터추천 『‰』ＫaＫa８３.ＣoＭ까톡: oxiz 『‰』 해외 베팅 업체
Re: Quality gear... who knew?
You may have missed my point... the point was the initial quality of the cheap vehicle was lacking so you change it to suit your needs... and with the high end vehicle that already has all the options you want you don't have to...
You may have missed my point... the point was the initial quality of the cheap vehicle was lacking so you change it to suit your needs... and with the high end vehicle that already has all the options you want you don't have to...
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DreX
New member
Re: Quality gear... who knew?
I've seen that too, but my MIAs and imports have taken damage at exactly the same rate, they both dent as easily, the frets wear out as easily, they rust as quickly, the jacks have problems as often, etc. In fact the nitro seems to discolor more readily than the poly, which you'd think would be undesirable. I really can't find any point of particular durability with the domestics, aside from aforementioned zinc tune-o-matics, which I suppose will require some addressing later in the century.
I've seen that too, but my MIAs and imports have taken damage at exactly the same rate, they both dent as easily, the frets wear out as easily, they rust as quickly, the jacks have problems as often, etc. In fact the nitro seems to discolor more readily than the poly, which you'd think would be undesirable. I really can't find any point of particular durability with the domestics, aside from aforementioned zinc tune-o-matics, which I suppose will require some addressing later in the century.
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Myaccount876
Amira-Maker
Re: Quality gear... who knew?
Unpopular opinion =/= being a nuisance to the forum. Otherwise a certain beloved bicyclist would've been banned a long time ago.
Unpopular opinion =/= being a nuisance to the forum. Otherwise a certain beloved bicyclist would've been banned a long time ago.
Snake Aces
Singlecut Slut
Myaccount876
Amira-Maker
Re: Quality gear... who knew?
Fair enough.
Fair enough.
Snake Aces
Singlecut Slut
Re: Quality gear... who knew?
I think the real shame here is we have a respected forum brother JB_From_Hell who bought a guitar and liked it so much he felt like sharing his joy with us here at SDUGF. He made a simple post and shared his thoughts on it as many of us do with our NGD threads. In doing so, somehow, this particular thread opened a very unintended can of worms to the point where many people may shy away from posting their thoughts and opinions when they buy new equipment in the future out of fear their thread will get derailed, hijacked or get accused of starting a controversial thread just for being happy with their new purchase. That should never, ever happen. We should be happy for each other on NGD posts/threads. This is a real shame to the SDUGF community and will surely make this place a little less active in the future if this kind of behavior continues.
I think the real shame here is we have a respected forum brother JB_From_Hell who bought a guitar and liked it so much he felt like sharing his joy with us here at SDUGF. He made a simple post and shared his thoughts on it as many of us do with our NGD threads. In doing so, somehow, this particular thread opened a very unintended can of worms to the point where many people may shy away from posting their thoughts and opinions when they buy new equipment in the future out of fear their thread will get derailed, hijacked or get accused of starting a controversial thread just for being happy with their new purchase. That should never, ever happen. We should be happy for each other on NGD posts/threads. This is a real shame to the SDUGF community and will surely make this place a little less active in the future if this kind of behavior continues.
DreX
New member
Re: Quality gear... who knew?
The ironic thing is the typical NGD post gets maybe to two pages before it succumbs to "Page 2" death, we're at page 9.
The ironic thing is the typical NGD post gets maybe to two pages before it succumbs to "Page 2" death, we're at page 9.
Red_Label
New member
Re: Quality gear... who knew?
What the???
Terrorists??? Seriously... are we short on meds this week???
What the???
Terrorists??? Seriously... are we short on meds this week???
Matt42
New member
Re: Quality gear... who knew?
9 pages that could be condensed to about three posts, TBH.
This is a pointless debate anyway, people who are likely to buy imports are going to buy imports, people who are likely to shy away from them will shy away from them. Both have a place in the hierarchy of musical instruments, I don't think anyone is denying that, they just fit in different places. Personally, I own a lot of import stuff, some with upgrades, some without. I own them because I can't really afford to buy higher priced stuff and I can gig with the imports without being unhappy. That being said, you better believe that I would rather be playing domestic products and would be if I had the funds to afford them.
9 pages that could be condensed to about three posts, TBH.
This is a pointless debate anyway, people who are likely to buy imports are going to buy imports, people who are likely to shy away from them will shy away from them. Both have a place in the hierarchy of musical instruments, I don't think anyone is denying that, they just fit in different places. Personally, I own a lot of import stuff, some with upgrades, some without. I own them because I can't really afford to buy higher priced stuff and I can gig with the imports without being unhappy. That being said, you better believe that I would rather be playing domestic products and would be if I had the funds to afford them.
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