Quartersawn vs non quartersawn necks?
- Thread starter BloodRose
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Ashurbanipal
Well-known member
Re: Quartersawn vs non quartersawn necks?
^^ Yeah. With really hard wood like maple, you can get away with making a flat sawn neck out of it. My old Ibanez guitars all have flat sawn necks, at any rate. A wood like mahogany is not as stiff as maple, so invariably has to be QS when used for building a neck.
Here's what Gil Yaron says about maple (old Fender) necks. To him, there's a palpable difference in tone vs. cut type.
'A few things regarding grain...
I select my necks to have the following end grain. it's not QS but not flat cut either.
It's a mix where the hi strings are "seeing" a QS grain and the lower strings - a flat.
This way the high strings are slightly rounded to sound fat and the low strings are getting more sizzle and presence. Many old pre-cbs necks are cut just like that. I'm pretty sure someone at Fullerton actually planned this as more than 50% of the old necks are like that.'
From his Double Esquire build: 'From my experience, QS is not as rich sounding as FS. I try to use Half QS on the treble side and flat on the bass side on all my builds. This gives me the best results and neck stability. This is my own opinion and I know many love QS... I just don't... I had quite a few built and almost all of them sounded too muffled.'
^^ Yeah. With really hard wood like maple, you can get away with making a flat sawn neck out of it. My old Ibanez guitars all have flat sawn necks, at any rate. A wood like mahogany is not as stiff as maple, so invariably has to be QS when used for building a neck.
Here's what Gil Yaron says about maple (old Fender) necks. To him, there's a palpable difference in tone vs. cut type.
'A few things regarding grain...
I select my necks to have the following end grain. it's not QS but not flat cut either.
It's a mix where the hi strings are "seeing" a QS grain and the lower strings - a flat.
This way the high strings are slightly rounded to sound fat and the low strings are getting more sizzle and presence. Many old pre-cbs necks are cut just like that. I'm pretty sure someone at Fullerton actually planned this as more than 50% of the old necks are like that.'
From his Double Esquire build: 'From my experience, QS is not as rich sounding as FS. I try to use Half QS on the treble side and flat on the bass side on all my builds. This gives me the best results and neck stability. This is my own opinion and I know many love QS... I just don't... I had quite a few built and almost all of them sounded too muffled.'
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Chocklit_Thunda
New member
Re: Quartersawn vs non quartersawn necks?
I prefer my necks made from Flatsawn wood.... The ones I've tried have sounded better than the QS. I guess it varies from piece to piece though?
I prefer my necks made from Flatsawn wood.... The ones I've tried have sounded better than the QS. I guess it varies from piece to piece though?
Bludave
New member
Re: Quartersawn vs non quartersawn necks?
Quarter sawn is more stable over flat sawn and is less likely to warp but it costs more to produce it. Here is a pretty good picture showing both side by side.
http://albertobolocanmusic.blogspot.com/2011/03/maple-neck-wood.html
Quarter sawn is more stable over flat sawn and is less likely to warp but it costs more to produce it. Here is a pretty good picture showing both side by side.
http://albertobolocanmusic.blogspot.com/2011/03/maple-neck-wood.html
Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: Quartersawn vs non quartersawn necks?
I would absolutely love to put Gil or anyone else to a blind listen test for a flat sawn vs quarter sawn neck or even one of his special sorta flat sorta quarter necks.
Its purely a structural thing... not tone... anyone saying anything else is seriously drinking the cool aid.
I would absolutely love to put Gil or anyone else to a blind listen test for a flat sawn vs quarter sawn neck or even one of his special sorta flat sorta quarter necks.
Its purely a structural thing... not tone... anyone saying anything else is seriously drinking the cool aid.
STRATDELUXER97
Stratoblaster Tone Meister
Re: Quartersawn vs non quartersawn necks?
Thanks Dave...Excellent! Learned something new today.
Thanks Dave...Excellent! Learned something new today.
Chocklit_Thunda
New member
Re: Quartersawn vs non quartersawn necks?
Actually, no. The structural factor contributes to a tonal difference.... Try a tap test on a QS vs a FS neck. The times I've done it, the FS has had a better tonal response most of the time. It could just be MY wood but it was there.
Actually, no. The structural factor contributes to a tonal difference.... Try a tap test on a QS vs a FS neck. The times I've done it, the FS has had a better tonal response most of the time. It could just be MY wood but it was there.
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: Quartersawn vs non quartersawn necks?
Oh look, another expert who has spoken and so the issue is resolved. Another expert who is probably going to tell me i don't have Eric Johnson's ears, am not a professional therefore i don't know what i'm talking about.
Quartersawn necks sound noticeably different, particularly on Strats and Teles. If you can't hear it, perhaps you should allow space in your mouthing off for those with decades of experience who can.
Thanks.
Oh look, another expert who has spoken and so the issue is resolved. Another expert who is probably going to tell me i don't have Eric Johnson's ears, am not a professional therefore i don't know what i'm talking about.
Quartersawn necks sound noticeably different, particularly on Strats and Teles. If you can't hear it, perhaps you should allow space in your mouthing off for those with decades of experience who can.
Thanks.
Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: Quartersawn vs non quartersawn necks?
Oh look, another expert who has spoken and so the issue is resolved. Another expert who is probably going to tell me i don't have Eric Johnson's ears, am not a professional therefore i don't know what i'm talking about.
And AGAIN I invite you to do a blind listen test. But I know you wont cause you know what you know and have nothing to prove right?
Oh look, another expert who has spoken and so the issue is resolved. Another expert who is probably going to tell me i don't have Eric Johnson's ears, am not a professional therefore i don't know what i'm talking about.
And AGAIN I invite you to do a blind listen test. But I know you wont cause you know what you know and have nothing to prove right?
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Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: Quartersawn vs non quartersawn necks?
Define "better" and is any difference you hear attributable to the grain direction or just being a different piece of wood.
Define "better" and is any difference you hear attributable to the grain direction or just being a different piece of wood.
Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: Quartersawn vs non quartersawn necks?
So if I hand you 2 guitars 1 with a quarter sawn neck and 1 without you can tell the difference? Without looking at the neck?
So if I hand you 2 guitars 1 with a quarter sawn neck and 1 without you can tell the difference? Without looking at the neck?
LReese
Sausage Gravy
Re: Quartersawn vs non quartersawn necks?
Oh come on!
I've got almost 38 years (Longer than your profile says you've been on this earth) under my belt and I own multiple examples of both. Do you? I know my perceptions on the subject. You don't have to beat your chest to try to prove you're right.
Oh come on!
I've got almost 38 years (Longer than your profile says you've been on this earth) under my belt and I own multiple examples of both. Do you? I know my perceptions on the subject. You don't have to beat your chest to try to prove you're right.
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Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: Quartersawn vs non quartersawn necks?
Iam seriously asking you this. Any difference I hear in 2 guitars I cannot say for 100% certain that its the grain direction in the neck. With so many factors to play how to you eliminate all of them? Swap necks onto the same bodies and use fresh strings both times?
I know for myself if i walk into a guitar store and pickup a random guitar off the rack and strum the strings without looking at any tags or knowing the model before hand I cannot tell if it has a flat or quarter sawn neck. Now maybe my ears arent as good as all yours but I dont hear it any difference I hear is the difference between 2 guitars.
Iam seriously asking you this. Any difference I hear in 2 guitars I cannot say for 100% certain that its the grain direction in the neck. With so many factors to play how to you eliminate all of them? Swap necks onto the same bodies and use fresh strings both times?
I know for myself if i walk into a guitar store and pickup a random guitar off the rack and strum the strings without looking at any tags or knowing the model before hand I cannot tell if it has a flat or quarter sawn neck. Now maybe my ears arent as good as all yours but I dont hear it any difference I hear is the difference between 2 guitars.
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: Quartersawn vs non quartersawn necks?
That's right, I know what i hear. If you and others can't hear sonic differences when you make these all-encompassing, all-knowing statements, you probably haven't developed your hearing to a sufficient degree yet. It is a lifetime's process, and for a while i have at least been able to hear things that i once would never have believed existed. It is very clear from the amount of internet experts that what they read is more valuable than the experiences of those who have travelled the path and been exposed to many things enough times to be able to detect the differences between subtleties.
Most people can hear. But listening is a skill that takes time to develop ... a lifetime, i suspect.
And you are correct, i have nothing to prove ... some people can hear the differences, some can't. But to make public statements like this ...
" Its purely a structural thing... not tone... anyone saying anything else is seriously drinking the cool aid. "
well, i don't really need to say anymore, so i won't.
That's right, I know what i hear. If you and others can't hear sonic differences when you make these all-encompassing, all-knowing statements, you probably haven't developed your hearing to a sufficient degree yet. It is a lifetime's process, and for a while i have at least been able to hear things that i once would never have believed existed. It is very clear from the amount of internet experts that what they read is more valuable than the experiences of those who have travelled the path and been exposed to many things enough times to be able to detect the differences between subtleties.
Most people can hear. But listening is a skill that takes time to develop ... a lifetime, i suspect.
And you are correct, i have nothing to prove ... some people can hear the differences, some can't. But to make public statements like this ...
" Its purely a structural thing... not tone... anyone saying anything else is seriously drinking the cool aid. "
well, i don't really need to say anymore, so i won't.
LReese
Sausage Gravy
Re: Quartersawn vs non quartersawn necks?
Hmm - a random guitar is not likely to have fresh strings nor can it be assumed to have optimal setup.
My opinion is formed by owning quarter-sawn and flat sawn examples (of similar construction),playing them and maintaining them for a period of time.
Hmm - a random guitar is not likely to have fresh strings nor can it be assumed to have optimal setup.
My opinion is formed by owning quarter-sawn and flat sawn examples (of similar construction),playing them and maintaining them for a period of time.
Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: Quartersawn vs non quartersawn necks?
I'm sorry dude I like you and respect what you say and we can agree to disagree but this really reeks of arrogance and presumption. You dont know what I can hear you dont know my expierence. Instead you decide to throw in an ad hominem attack. Not so cool Ill bow out and leave this as is and we'll just have to live with our disagreement but I somehow suspect that we will both survive just fine.
I'm sorry dude I like you and respect what you say and we can agree to disagree but this really reeks of arrogance and presumption. You dont know what I can hear you dont know my expierence. Instead you decide to throw in an ad hominem attack. Not so cool Ill bow out and leave this as is and we'll just have to live with our disagreement but I somehow suspect that we will both survive just fine.
Chocklit_Thunda
New member
Re: Quartersawn vs non quartersawn necks?
Better: the FS neck blanks rang out more and also had a tad more sustain. Whether it not you'll hear that in its entirety in a fully assembled guitar is debatable, but it's nice to know that it's there. Placebo affect and such. Lets be real though, there's so many factors involved that can amplify or counteract each other....
Probably not. But chances are that in a blindfolded test you won't be able to hear the difference between a rosewood board and a maple one. People say they can but really the difference is so minimal.....
Really you're not gonna realistically swap out necks until you get the exact one and all that shhhhtuff... Nor are you going to go into a store and ask them to swap necks for you because "this one isn't the right grain direction".... It counts more when you're building one, of course you're gonna want the most resonant piece you can find (which happened to be the 5 of 7 flat sawn pieces I tried) even if the differences will be negligible. All my guitars have rosewood boards. Not because of the "added warmth" but because I like how it looks more than maple. My Tele is still the brightest twangiest guitar I own.
Better: the FS neck blanks rang out more and also had a tad more sustain. Whether it not you'll hear that in its entirety in a fully assembled guitar is debatable, but it's nice to know that it's there. Placebo affect and such. Lets be real though, there's so many factors involved that can amplify or counteract each other....
Probably not. But chances are that in a blindfolded test you won't be able to hear the difference between a rosewood board and a maple one. People say they can but really the difference is so minimal.....
Really you're not gonna realistically swap out necks until you get the exact one and all that shhhhtuff... Nor are you going to go into a store and ask them to swap necks for you because "this one isn't the right grain direction".... It counts more when you're building one, of course you're gonna want the most resonant piece you can find (which happened to be the 5 of 7 flat sawn pieces I tried) even if the differences will be negligible. All my guitars have rosewood boards. Not because of the "added warmth" but because I like how it looks more than maple. My Tele is still the brightest twangiest guitar I own.
King IzzO)))
Ultimate Kitten Puncher
Re: Quartersawn vs non quartersawn necks?
Gee willikers, I have a quatersawn Warmoth neck with a 59 roundback profile and a maple board, it's bright as **** and transfers vibrations into my hand like crazy, I'll play it for a couple hours and my fingers will be tingling, almost like running a weedeater. That could be a combination of the large profile and being Q-sawn though because my XLR is supposedly a quatersawn neck too, and it doesn't do that to me. It's thinner, and not by a little, but it feels way stronger than a normal dinky or wizard neck.
In recordings or in the case of body woods I'd tend to agree that in most cases you can't tell by listening, but if you can't hear the difference between a maple and rosewood board when you're in the same room you should just quit now, seriously.
Gee willikers, I have a quatersawn Warmoth neck with a 59 roundback profile and a maple board, it's bright as **** and transfers vibrations into my hand like crazy, I'll play it for a couple hours and my fingers will be tingling, almost like running a weedeater. That could be a combination of the large profile and being Q-sawn though because my XLR is supposedly a quatersawn neck too, and it doesn't do that to me. It's thinner, and not by a little, but it feels way stronger than a normal dinky or wizard neck.
In recordings or in the case of body woods I'd tend to agree that in most cases you can't tell by listening, but if you can't hear the difference between a maple and rosewood board when you're in the same room you should just quit now, seriously.
