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Lewguitar
Guest
Does Marshall fingerjoin thier cabinets? Also called box joined. It's the way old Fender cabs prior to the early 70's were made. It's similar to dove tailing but not quite the same. Lew
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Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Question about Marshall cabinet construction
The corners of old Fender cabs were joined with a box joint. Here's an example of a finger joint or box joint:
The corners of old Fender cabs were joined with a box joint. Here's an example of a finger joint or box joint:
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jmh151
Active member
Re: Question about Marshall cabinet construction
Only on their 1960 4x12's- as well as the vintage cabinets. In other words the 2x12's and 1x12's are just MDF.
The cabinet on my 1989 JCM800 2x12 combo is finger joined. The cabinet on my JCM2000 DSL401 was MDF- no different than my old valvestate
Only on their 1960 4x12's- as well as the vintage cabinets. In other words the 2x12's and 1x12's are just MDF.
The cabinet on my 1989 JCM800 2x12 combo is finger joined. The cabinet on my JCM2000 DSL401 was MDF- no different than my old valvestate
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Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Question about Marshall cabinet construction
Thanks! Any idea when Marshall stopped finger joining their cabs? Just wondering how my '82 Marshalls are put together.
Thanks! Any idea when Marshall stopped finger joining their cabs? Just wondering how my '82 Marshalls are put together.
LesPaulRules
New member
Re: Question about Marshall cabinet construction
Those should be finger jointed. Marshall didn't start to really cheap out until the 90's.
Those should be finger jointed. Marshall didn't start to really cheap out until the 90's.
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Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Question about Marshall cabinet construction
Whereas Fender stopped finger joining in the early 70's.
Interesting.
Thanks!
Whereas Fender stopped finger joining in the early 70's.
Interesting.
Thanks!
jmh151
Active member
Re: Question about Marshall cabinet construction
Marshall still fingerjoins their 4x12's. It's the 2x12's, 1x12's, and the combo amps that they stopped fingerjoining. I don't know when they stopped.
My '89 is finger joined like that box you posted- I know since the tolex is torn off one corner and the joint is exposed
Marshall still fingerjoins their 4x12's. It's the 2x12's, 1x12's, and the combo amps that they stopped fingerjoining. I don't know when they stopped.
My '89 is finger joined like that box you posted- I know since the tolex is torn off one corner and the joint is exposed
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Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Question about Marshall cabinet construction
I'm thinking of picking up a Marshall 2 x 12 speaker cab on ebay. But I'd like to get one that's fingerjoined. So if I went for a JCM800 from the 80's it'd probably be finger joined? Thanks! Lew
I'm thinking of picking up a Marshall 2 x 12 speaker cab on ebay. But I'd like to get one that's fingerjoined. So if I went for a JCM800 from the 80's it'd probably be finger joined? Thanks! Lew
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Question about Marshall cabinet construction
One from the 80's should be just fine...keep in mind they are ply wood not pine like the good sounding Fender cabs. I think those older Marshall cabs still sound good but not like a Fender...not bad just different
One from the 80's should be just fine...keep in mind they are ply wood not pine like the good sounding Fender cabs. I think those older Marshall cabs still sound good but not like a Fender...not bad just different
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Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Question about Marshall cabinet construction
Yep. You know something funny is that everyone loves the tone of those old Fender blackface amps...and the speaker board is 1/2" particle board! Not plywood: PARTICLE BOARD! (As in: sawdust and glue! LOL! ) Lew
Yep. You know something funny is that everyone loves the tone of those old Fender blackface amps...and the speaker board is 1/2" particle board! Not plywood: PARTICLE BOARD! (As in: sawdust and glue! LOL! ) Lew
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the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Question about Marshall cabinet construction
YEP!
Fender switched to the crap baffle boards in 64 or 65...I'll say this though...the best sounding 2x12 cab I ever had was a blond bassman cab that had an original plywood baffle, I had 2 Geenbacks in it and loved it!
YEP!
Fender switched to the crap baffle boards in 64 or 65...I'll say this though...the best sounding 2x12 cab I ever had was a blond bassman cab that had an original plywood baffle, I had 2 Geenbacks in it and loved it!
mediumpimpin
New member
Re: Question about Marshall cabinet construction
Particle board or mdf, is actually very strong, I dunno if it sounds good in a guitar cab, but strong nonetheless. All the car audio guys build their sub enclosures out of mdf, and those things endure some serious pressure and aren't phased.
Particle board or mdf, is actually very strong, I dunno if it sounds good in a guitar cab, but strong nonetheless. All the car audio guys build their sub enclosures out of mdf, and those things endure some serious pressure and aren't phased.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Question about Marshall cabinet construction
It's fairly strong...not at all as strong as a hard wood or as plywood!
The reason they use it in car audio cabs is simply because the resonate freq of a piece of MDF is so low...they can build a box just barely big enough to hold the speaker they ar eputting in it and have no issues with the box itself ringing...MDF is acoustically DEAD!
Also, FWIW...sure it's kind of strong but after some years it does start to simply fall apart...the glue in it dries out and it crumbles! I've seen several mid 60's Fender amps lately for sale cheep for that very reason.
It's fairly strong...not at all as strong as a hard wood or as plywood!
The reason they use it in car audio cabs is simply because the resonate freq of a piece of MDF is so low...they can build a box just barely big enough to hold the speaker they ar eputting in it and have no issues with the box itself ringing...MDF is acoustically DEAD!
Also, FWIW...sure it's kind of strong but after some years it does start to simply fall apart...the glue in it dries out and it crumbles! I've seen several mid 60's Fender amps lately for sale cheep for that very reason.
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Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Question about Marshall cabinet construction
I think the reason they use it is because it's so cheap and so efficient to saw up. You just keep feeding 4' x 8' sheets through the panel cutting saw...
I think the reason they use it is because it's so cheap and so efficient to saw up. You just keep feeding 4' x 8' sheets through the panel cutting saw...
mediumpimpin
New member
Re: Question about Marshall cabinet construction
I fairly certain quality mdf is actually stronger than the majority of hardwoods or plywood, otherwise you'd see the spl competitors switching. They do not build boxes barely big enough for the speaker, in fact the box size is determined by the speaker and sometimes it's as big as 10ft^3. I vaguely remember reading some stats on the strength stats of mdf vs plywood and it wasn't even close, but that was a while ago. I'm not arguing the acoustics or longterm durability, that's obvious, but playwood is subject to similar issues. I'm not trying to start an internet pissing war, just stating what I've heard thru my yrs in the car audio game.
I fairly certain quality mdf is actually stronger than the majority of hardwoods or plywood, otherwise you'd see the spl competitors switching. They do not build boxes barely big enough for the speaker, in fact the box size is determined by the speaker and sometimes it's as big as 10ft^3. I vaguely remember reading some stats on the strength stats of mdf vs plywood and it wasn't even close, but that was a while ago. I'm not arguing the acoustics or longterm durability, that's obvious, but playwood is subject to similar issues. I'm not trying to start an internet pissing war, just stating what I've heard thru my yrs in the car audio game.
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Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Question about Marshall cabinet construction
MDF is just dust and glue! :laugh2: I'm a cabinet maker and furniture designer: http://www.mountainfurniturearts.com MDF isn't particularly strong at all. Most plywood is stronger because the individual layers of wood are glued together at right angles. So the grain from one layer runs at a 90 degree angle to the layer above and below it. Particle board and MDF have no grain and very little strength. Try jumping on a piece of 3/4" partcle board or MDF - you'll go right through it. Also, screws don't hold for crap in MDF and Particle Board...they'll strip it easily because the MDF or Particle Board turns back into dust so easily.
MDF is just dust and glue! :laugh2: I'm a cabinet maker and furniture designer: http://www.mountainfurniturearts.com MDF isn't particularly strong at all. Most plywood is stronger because the individual layers of wood are glued together at right angles. So the grain from one layer runs at a 90 degree angle to the layer above and below it. Particle board and MDF have no grain and very little strength. Try jumping on a piece of 3/4" partcle board or MDF - you'll go right through it. Also, screws don't hold for crap in MDF and Particle Board...they'll strip it easily because the MDF or Particle Board turns back into dust so easily.
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Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Question about Marshall cabinet construction
Here's some info from a woodworking forum: http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28324
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/MDF_versus_particleboard.html
Here's some info from a woodworking forum: http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28324
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/MDF_versus_particleboard.html
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mediumpimpin
New member
Re: Question about Marshall cabinet construction
You do realize wood glue when dry is very strong right? A proper glued joint is stronger than the wood itself, I've seen it several times. MDF is sawdust and glue, but pressed at extremely high psi, making it pretty strong. Try jumping on a 3/4 piece of plywood, I guarantee it too will break and screws come loose in all wood, I've done a lot of woodworking. I'm not saying I want a mdf cab, quite the contrary, but it's not as bad as people think. When I first got into car audio, I was shocked people were doing these really expensive custom setups using mdf enclosures, but mdf is actually superior to plywood in certain areas, sub enclosures being the biggest. Anyways, with the thread jack over, I'll let this thread go back to marshall cabs and not mdf vs. plywood, lol.
You do realize wood glue when dry is very strong right? A proper glued joint is stronger than the wood itself, I've seen it several times. MDF is sawdust and glue, but pressed at extremely high psi, making it pretty strong. Try jumping on a 3/4 piece of plywood, I guarantee it too will break and screws come loose in all wood, I've done a lot of woodworking. I'm not saying I want a mdf cab, quite the contrary, but it's not as bad as people think. When I first got into car audio, I was shocked people were doing these really expensive custom setups using mdf enclosures, but mdf is actually superior to plywood in certain areas, sub enclosures being the biggest. Anyways, with the thread jack over, I'll let this thread go back to marshall cabs and not mdf vs. plywood, lol.
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