question about old JBs vs newer ones...

Re: question about old JBs vs newer ones...

Davey said:
can you point me to that article please? i'd like to read their views on that.
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To be honest, I don't remember...it might have been TomsHardwareGuide or something. It was a while back.

Here's one source I dug up which states somewhat the same thing although admittedly with less scientific backing than the original article I read:

http://www.knowplace.org/burn-in.html


I'm also in no way saying that this is what happens with pickups...I'm just saying that it is possible that conducting components can change over a period of years and it may even be likely if the guitar has been in a variety of temperatures/environments.
 
Re: question about old JBs vs newer ones...

Robert S. said:
The "cheaper materials now" theory applied to current SD pickups is not valid.
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That's right...and they're still wound the same way as they were in the 50's and 60's, with a human operator guiding the wire by hand.

If anything, pickups are made better today than in the 50's and 60's because we're so much more obsessive about tone these days.

Lew
 
Re: question about old JBs vs newer ones...

One thing I did not see mentioned: connections and contacts. Problems can sometimes develop over time where two different kinds of material come in contact. This might explain some differences.
 
Re: question about old JBs vs newer ones...

How about the company owners? Is the company owned by EXACTLY the same person? If not, than different management means different or changed products.

I personally think the old SD p-up's are a lot better. I have a several SD 59 HB's from the early 80's and they ALL sound different than the new ones. I even changed magnets and ALL of the old ones have that "certain something" that the new ones lack. Of course this is just my opinion based on my results of comparing old vs new.
 
Re: question about old JBs vs newer ones...

ranalli said:
To be honest, I don't remember...it might have been TomsHardwareGuide or something. It was a while back.

Here's one source I dug up which states somewhat the same thing although admittedly with less scientific backing than the original article I read:

http://www.knowplace.org/burn-in.html


I'm also in no way saying that this is what happens with pickups...I'm just saying that it is possible that conducting components can change over a period of years and it may even be likely if the guitar has been in a variety of temperatures/environments.
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that is not a break in time.. (what i understand under break in. take strings for example. at first they sound way too bright and buzzy, but after a while they settle in and hold their tone and tune for quite some time.. same with cars. an engine needs break in time. it is not healthy to get it out of the store and start racing with it)
what you are describing is burn-in, which is basically a test of your system under 100% stress so you can see how it handles and where the possibilities of a crash are and which components are weaker and compose a 'bottleneck' of the system. also used for overheating tests

there's a HUGE diference

psycho.. i believe the company is still owned by Seymour W. Duncan .. the same as the last 30 odd years
 
Re: question about old JBs vs newer ones...

Davey said:
psycho.. i believe the company is still owned by Seymour W. Duncan .. the same as the last 30 odd years
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I was told the "MRS". SD owned the company now through divorce and Seymour is only involved with the Antiquity p-up. I could be wrong though. :smack:
 
Re: question about old JBs vs newer ones...

psychodave said:
I was told the "MRS". SD owned the company now through divorce and Seymour is only involved with the Antiquity p-up. I could be wrong though. :smack:
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to be honest, i got 0 idea.. ask evan, madison or jessica
 
Re: question about old JBs vs newer ones...

well all i know is that old or new the duncans sound better than the dimarzios i have tried! :)
I would hate to think they old ones were actually built better though :smack:
 
Re: question about old JBs vs newer ones...

Should be magnet aging. My old JB sounds nicer than my "new" one in the SAME guitar. The difference is not gigantic, but the older one is sweeter and warmer with less of that spike that we all know and love - a sort of electromagnetic pre-senility perhaps?
 
Re: question about old JBs vs newer ones...

msplines said:
Should be magnet aging. My old JB sounds nicer than my "new" one in the SAME guitar. The difference is not gigantic, but the older one is sweeter and warmer with less of that spike that we all know and love - a sort of electromagnetic pre-senility perhaps?
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the only real way to ever know is to own both a old and a new duncan JB or whatever,then change magnets( old to new and new to old pup).
that would solve it if the old magnet in the new JB sounded sweeter or like all the old JB's do
:)
 
Re: question about old JBs vs newer ones...

RG 2570 said:
the only real way to ever know is to own both a old and a new duncan JB or whatever,then change magnets( old to new and new to old pup).
that would solve it if the old magnet in the new JB sounded sweeter or like all the old JB's do
:)
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Thats what I did to a few of my SD '59's and there was a difference. Old sounded better to me. Like I posted above...the old has that "certain something".


I posted in the trading area that I was looking for an old 80's SD distortion. I have tried new ones and they dont sound the same. And I think it takes 100's of years for ceramic magnets to loose charge so it is not the magnets. The older ones sound different to me.
 
Re: question about old JBs vs newer ones...

psychodave said:
Thats what I did to a few of my SD '59's and there was a difference. Old sounded better to me. Like I posted above...the old has that "certain something".


I posted in the trading area that I was looking for an old 80's SD distortion. I have tried new ones and they dont sound the same. And I think it takes 100's of years for ceramic magnets to loose charge so it is not the magnets. The older ones sound different to me.
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hey dave check your PM :)
 
Re: question about old JBs vs newer ones...

It not the first time someone has brought up the difference in sound old vs. new JBs on the forum, but when it comes up the owner doesn't ever have a meter.

I saw an old JB on eBay awhile back that clocked in at 9. something k and it sold for more than new.

It didn't have a seymourized sticker.

You certainly wouldn't wind a pickup with #44 wire to say 9.5 for a bridge pickup and JB designates that position. Is it possible the early JBs were a different gauge and DC resistance?

Bose do you have the ability to measure both of yours?

Other wise I suspect a difference in wire coating, maybe not a difference in type but a difference in thickness, early ones not wax potted, sweat in PU changes capacitance, oxygen (rust) pockets in the wire, different manufacture's supposive same magnets?

No wait I got it, maple vs. mahogany spacers (lol).
 
Re: question about old JBs vs newer ones...

Davey said:
that is not a break in time.. (what i understand under break in. take strings for example. at first they sound way too bright and buzzy, but after a while they settle in and hold their tone and tune for quite some time.. same with cars. an engine needs break in time. it is not healthy to get it out of the store and start racing with it)
what you are describing is burn-in, which is basically a test of your system under 100% stress so you can see how it handles and where the possibilities of a crash are and which components are weaker and compose a 'bottleneck' of the system. also used for overheating tests

there's a HUGE diference

psycho.. i believe the company is still owned by Seymour W. Duncan .. the same as the last 30 odd years
Click to expand...


This part is important to note:
Sometimes, there's also a burn-in effect whereby a machine actually becomes more stable after being subjected to prolonged stress testing. I've personally witnessed this effect on several machines that I've built in the past. Initially, the machines would be unstable when overclocked to certain speeds, needing additional cooling or voltage to achieve marginal stability. After strenuously stress testing the machines for several days (or sometimes weeks), the machine can become stable at its stock voltage without extreme cooling.
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Why would that be the case if there wasn't a change in something on the chip? This burn-in is done by some over-clockers to do just what is mentioned above...making the chip more stable at the same level of cooling. How would that be possible if something didn't change??
 
Re: question about old JBs vs newer ones...

Well Lightning,

the old JB that I have is screwed into my custom Tele and I wasn't planning on taking it out to measure the gauge of wire, but I think that it might be rather interesting now that you've mentioned it.

Give me a few days and I can take it to work and chk both the gauge & the read out on a meter of both JBs.

I must say that the idea of alnico vs ceramic magnets in the pups seems to clarify the "material" difference theroy. Certainly both versions may have the same output, resistence, wave curve, etc-etc. But, in lame-men's (is that right?) to me it's like trying on two pair of shoes, 1 that's "broken-in" and 1 that's freash out of the box. Both have all the same specs, but 1 feels like "but-ta" while the other feel a bit stiff. If there is a difference in materials, this maybe the result and not something that can be seen on a meter.

Boze.
 
Re: question about old JBs vs newer ones...

the alnico vs custom magnets would be possible in the custom case, but the JB, we need more input on this. change of magnets from old to new, or that the new ones are a bit overwound/hotter than the old ones

lets just agree to dissagre ranalli, cos i do not believe in changes in the structure of the CPU. there are external changes that ensue stability, but not internal
 
Re: question about old JBs vs newer ones...

I'll say it again, there is no difference between the first JBs made and the ones shipped yesterday, other than age. While theories may be fun to play with there is alot of grasping at straws in this thread.

Unless you are doing an A/B with 2 JBs in the same guitar with the exact same components and the exact same set-up (pickup height/ pole heights ect) any comparison is not valid, and then you still have the age factor to deal with.

Guessing can be alot of fun, but it's not always productive.
 
Re: question about old JBs vs newer ones...

Davey, Davey, Davey,

Have you seen the amd processor video of the AMD running 7 seconds without a fan...It's cool and I can't believe it is on their web site cause if it doesn't sound like a Orange or a Marahall I wouldn't buy it (renagade me I can't stop buying them but I don't recondmend them.

Artie and Kent taugh me a few tricks lately that defy logic but I trust they are right. I know what you mean but we are talking safe voltage here. Mags could be an issue but please refer to my earlier post.. All I know is I have a first year production DMZ PAF (before SD even made PUs although he was winding them then and I have two of those and you can't have them any price cause they's all special.

The K6 or what ever it was called arrived later than the JB but I'm prepping to live to be 100 years old so I associate them as occurring at the same time.

In the back of my mind as of a result of seeing that add on eBay (dude could have been reading one coil with a cheesy meter) I've been wondering about the early JB's...like is that the current bridge pos Antiquity?

Rob please ask SD...thanks.
 
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Re: question about old JBs vs newer ones...

Rob, Got an Orangeburst with reverse zebras…Thanks for the avatars…as far as I'm concerned you did more for D cream than any recording artist. Further I enjoyed your C type sound clips.

Please Don't kick me off the forum for asking but how much does Evan pay you to tell me not to think? You were the first to respond to my odd questions when I registered on the forum (9 months Ago) and I sort of appreciated it then (when ever you say that's a different coil I know you know something I don't know) but man, I expect Evan to to be a corporate man...I look at you as being the direct rep of SD him self.

Fess up, even if there was no early deviations of the JB every thing else I've said is true.

I asked Evan if he played guitar...he never answered (I'll take that as a no).

I totally accept what you are saying in this thread on practicality but...Little story...replaced a tube executone paging amp at a car dealer ship with a Bogan (transistor) amp. Ended up repairing the Executone amp cause the customer didn't like the new amp.

If someone is saying there is a deference between JBs (review my threads), listen.

For my mental health please kick me off the forum, other wise please consider my opposition a bonding thing. Actually please kick me off the forum...I got the 50s mod and DGBs website, and personal contact with the monsters here...I'm cool.
 
Re: question about old JBs vs newer ones...

Robert S. said:
I'll say it again, there is no difference between the first JBs made and the ones shipped yesterday, other than age. While theories may be fun to play with there is alot of grasping at straws in this thread.

Unless you are doing an A/B with 2 JBs in the same guitar with the exact same components and the exact same set-up (pickup height/ pole heights ect) any comparison is not valid, and then you still have the age factor to deal with.

Guessing can be alot of fun, but it's not always productive.
Click to expand...

Guys: Robert's right!

Lew
 
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