question about outputs of pups?

[ranalli]

Re: question about outputs of pups?

OK, the Steve's Special and Megadrive are two very different pickups. You don't turn a Steve's Special into a Mega Drive simply by changing the magnet. That's like saying: "If I take a Ford GT, change the engine to the front, take off the supercharger, and add some tacky bodywork, I can get a Mustang."

Well other than the slug to bar change, that's what the Dimarzio rep told me.

also, In your previous post, you said that mV measurements take into account the magnet, now you're saying that the magnet doesn't matter. How does that work?

I'll explain this one more time since you STILL don't get it.

DC Resistance when used as a measurement of output(as people seem to be doing) does not take into consideration any magnet configuration. You can keep changing the magnet type/shape/size and the overall output but the DC Resistance will remain the same.

Measuring output in mV on the other hand takes into consideration the magnet because if you change the magnet configuration, the mV value will change appropriately and accordingly.

This is what I mean when I say the magnet does not matter...you'll get an accurate output reading anyway.

As far as car manufacturers' horsepower ratings go, it also seems like a reasonable system, unless you ask Mazda and Hyundai how many settlement checks they've written for selling cars with less horsepower than advertised. :smack:

This is dumb logic. A car maker may have an incentive to lie about horsepower but what logic is there in lying about output?? There's tons of low and high output pickups from both companies....what incentive is there to lie??

The only incentive that Dimarzio has to BS is money. They're in business to make money, keeping us happy is only a secondary concern. The only Dimarzio Catalog that I have is the one Dimarzio sent me in 2001.

I see, so you have a bone to pick with Dimarzio so they must be lying about everything....yeah that makes perfect sense...yeah that evil Dimarzio company. They must have made the whole mV thing up to completely scam everyone.

As far as their statements are concerned, I'm not excited about them. It's called marketing. "Sell the sizzle, not the steak". How does "3 times the output and a big midrange hump" sound to a kid with a stock Squire looking for a replacement pickup?

Who cares how that statement sounds...it may very well be the truth. Sounds like a fair description to me. How are they lying or screwing that poor kid??

for the gear geeks out there, they throw out mV measurements and allegations that an Airbucker sounds just like an Alnico II loaded pickup, but with " a much more stable magnet than the vintage PAF's". :smack:

Do you think a manufacturer isn't going to talk up their own pickup?? How do you know that the magnet isn't more stable than the old PAF magnets??

F**k Dimarzio for trying to sell a product.....I guess McDonalds is a bunch of jerks too for saying their burgers taste better than Burger King.....

Don't even get me started on the double cream issue. :smoker:

Just as I thought....you've been writing all this nonsense because you're pissed at Dimarzio and are biased against them...LOL.

Look, I think the double cream issue is stupid as well. It's not helping either Dimarzio OR Duncan because the people that buy double creams usually aren't Dimarzio buyers anyway so it's not really helping them out a whole lot.

 

[ranalli]

Re: question about outputs of pups?

That's a good question to ask Dimarzio about their mV measurements. What composition and guage of strings were used? What pick guage and composition? What was the height of the pickup from the strings? What guage was the guitar cable and leads used to wire in the pickup? What were the environmental conditions when testing? How much force was applied when picking the string? What kind of measuring device was used?

That type of stuff would only be relevant if another company wanted to duplicate the test used for obtaining mV values.

 

[ranalli]

Re: question about outputs of pups?

It's coming from my "mvarejustasmeaninglesstoguitaristsometer."

It's a random number I picked, merely to give people an easily established starting point. Pretty much anybody could get to a local shop and play a guitar with a Powersound pickup. They would then have a basis for comparison. When they read that the PS is a 5, and JB is an 8, they'll realize, "The JB must be louder." It could have been 0, and the JB 3.

It's not intended to be exact, merely to give some idea of the volume level. I bet it would be more meaningful to most guitarists than "450 mv."

But when you boil it down, that's the same type of comparisons used with the mVs that Dimarzio gives....only the numbers are more precise since you have a chance at more significant digits...see what I mean??

If Dimarzio was smart, they'd put a real commonly used pickup like a JB that they measured up there for comparison in mV. If the JB is like 375mV then it would help people to compare their pickups even more easily.

 

[SAVAGE DISTORTION]

Re: question about outputs of pups?

man! for a guy who could not give a ratt's A$$ about MV's the guy sure got involved in this thread :smack:
davey you seem that you are very narrow minded with that reply you posted
you dont care about the exact output of a pup?
no prob then avoid the damn threads about them in the future :laugh2:

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: question about outputs of pups?

I'm working on a setup to measure mV output by taking out all of the aforementioned variables. The same mounting for any type of pup, adjust to height, turn on and the unbalanced electric motor will move the plate or strings (my buddys suggestion) I hope it works as well as imagined

Luke

 

[Davey]

Re: question about outputs of pups?

man! for a guy who could not give a ratt's A$$ about MV's the guy sure got involved in this thread :smack:
davey you seem that you are very narrow minded with that reply you posted
you dont care about the exact output of a pup?
no prob then avoid the damn threads about them in the future :laugh2:

1st i wanted to know why on earth do you need exact mV outputs.
2nd you jumped on me
3rd i couldnt give a rats ass really about the exact amount of output the pup has.
4th i'll poke my nose into what thread i want to and i dont give a **** what you think about it

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: question about outputs of pups?

If Dimarzio was smart, they'd put a real commonly used pickup like a JB that they measured up there for comparison in mV. If the JB is like 375mV then it would help people to compare their pickups even more easily.

The only reasoning I have for a more simplified numerical system is because lots of people are gonna go, "What the heck are millivolts?" and would likely question any given base number less.

It would be really cool if the various manufacturers would show competitor's outputs in their own terms (ie, what you said about a JB in mv). Perhaps this is something we should do. It could be really informal, but shouldn't be too far off base. All we'd have to do is find someone who has each pickup we want to chart. As long as each contributor has a relative basis of comparison, it should be accurate enough for what we're trying to achieve.

The info could be compiled in a manner of "Distortion is hotter than a JB, but not as hot as an EMG 81", and then finalized into a listing, top to bottom, of pickup volumes. No mv or numerical listing, just put them in order of who's the hottest down to the coolest, and would include pickups from as many manufacturers as possible.

What do ya think?

 

[SAVAGE DISTORTION]

Re: question about outputs of pups?

1st i wanted to know why on earth do you need exact mV outputs.
2nd you jumped on me
3rd i couldnt give a rats ass really about the exact amount of output the pup has.
4th i'll poke my nose into what thread i want to and i dont give a **** what you think about it

:sword:

holy jeeezzuss!!!!!!!!!! over 2000 posts! i better not mess with this guy :laugh2:

 

[Davey]

Re: question about outputs of pups?

:sword:

holy jeeezzuss!!!!!!!!!! over 2000 posts! i better not mess with this guy :laugh2:

you obviously dont want to give up, do you? congratulations. you are the 1st person obnoxious enough to get on my ignore list. thankyouverymuch for not being mature enough to drop the subject. bye bye. it was not a pleasure of meeting you

 

[SAVAGE DISTORTION]

Re: question about outputs of pups?

you obviously dont want to give up, do you? congratulations. you are the 1st person obnoxious enough to get on my ignore list. thankyouverymuch for not being mature enough to drop the subject. bye bye. it was not a pleasure of meeting you

are you really 22? :smack:

 

[Forbes]

Re: question about outputs of pups?

are you really 22? :smack:

Dude you are on his ignore list, drop the argument, he can't hear you.





Oh and JB from hell, this idea of rating pickups in a simple 'this is hotter than this' seems to be a good idea for us too stupid to deal with millivolts, maybe we could get a few forum members with experience to collaborate and have a list of all the aftermarket and stock pickups that are used often in order of 'hottness', and vault it for reference. Anyone up for this, or are we in the minority?

We already have a very good starting point from the earilier post.

 

[ranalli]

Re: question about outputs of pups?

The only reasoning I have for a more simplified numerical system is because lots of people are gonna go, "What the heck are millivolts?" and would likely question any given base number less.

It would be really cool if the various manufacturers would show competitor's outputs in their own terms (ie, what you said about a JB in mv). Perhaps this is something we should do. It could be really informal, but shouldn't be too far off base. All we'd have to do is find someone who has each pickup we want to chart. As long as each contributor has a relative basis of comparison, it should be accurate enough for what we're trying to achieve.

The info could be compiled in a manner of "Distortion is hotter than a JB, but not as hot as an EMG 81", and then finalized into a listing, top to bottom, of pickup volumes. No mv or numerical listing, just put them in order of who's the hottest down to the coolest, and would include pickups from as many manufacturers as possible.

What do ya think?

While I don't think that mV is any more complicated than inches it would be nice to have a list like that although it would be somewhat difficult to compile where more than one company is concerned with all the middle ground type pickups.

But it would be nice. I could do a bunch right off the bat and then people could just fill in the spaces...hopefully there wouldn't be too many disagreements.

If someone could measure mV though we could make a much more accurate list though that would be definitive.


Like I know that from high to low:

Dimarzio X2N
EMG 81
Duncan Distortion
Duncan JB
Dimarzio Fred
Dimarzio PAF Pro

for example....but where would the Custom Custom fit in I wonder??

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: question about outputs of pups?

That type of stuff would only be relevant if another company wanted to duplicate the test used for obtaining mV values.

Obviously, you like the mV system, and nothing that I have or will say will ever change your views on the subject. As far as "dumb logic" goes, read your own posts and count the times you have contradicted yourself. It doesn't get dumber than that, if you ask me.

The point I'm trying to get across is that the mV system is a good idea ON PAPER, but hey, so was the Hindenburg. :smoker:

 

[SAVAGE DISTORTION]

Re: question about outputs of pups?

Obviously, you like the mV system, and nothing that I have or will say will ever change your views on the subject. As far as "dumb logic" goes, read your own posts and count the times you have contradicted yourself. It doesn't get dumber than that, if you ask me.

The point I'm trying to get across is that the mV system is a good idea ON PAPER, but hey, so was the Hindenburg. :smoker:

benjy, OTHER than a MV system what would be a good way to determine the pups final output?
you cant just go by magnet type or resistance?
like a dimarzio super II has a resistance of 9K and has a very high output? it has the same output as the super D(425mv)

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: question about outputs of pups?

benjy, OTHER than a MV system what would be a good way to determine the pups final output?
you cant just go by magnet type or resistance?
like a dimarzio super II has a resistance of 9K and has a very high output? it has the same output as the super D(425mv)

You see, that's the thing. There is no RELIABLE way of measuring the exact output of a pickup. My fave pickups might sound thick and ballsy in my guitars through my rig when I'm playing, but sound tinny, weak, and anemic in your guitars through your rig.

Have you ever let your friends play your axe through your rig? It still sounds like them, right?

To be honest, i think that JB From Hell is on to something. Compare the aftermarket pickup to something the average player is familiar with, like the Powersounds, Fender's stock singles, or Gibson's 490 series of pickups.


That, along with some quality soundclips should give most people the information they need. BTW, I think that Duncan's "Output bar" system isn't good on it's own either, but at least the soundclips are decent.

 

[SAVAGE DISTORTION]

Re: question about outputs of pups?

You see, that's the thing. There is no RELIABLE way of measuring the exact output of a pickup. My fave pickups might sound thick and ballsy in my guitars through my rig when I'm playing, but sound tinny, weak, and anemic in your guitars through your rig.

Have you ever let your friends play your axe through your rig? It still sounds like them, right?

To be honest, i think that JB From Hell is on to something. Compare the aftermarket pickup to something the average player is familiar with, like the Powersounds, Fender's stock singles, or Gibson's 490 series of pickups.


That, along with some quality soundclips should give most people the information they need. BTW, I think that Duncan's "Output bar" system isn't good on it's own either, but at least the soundclips are decent.

I guess it is just a good thing most pup companies have the return or exchange policy then :laugh2:
lets face it you buy say a DD but find it is too much so you exachange it for a dimebucker or another.
once you know the company you want to use it really is a matter of hit and miss i guess?