Question for 59 users....

B

BYN

New member
Here's my issue

Just installed a 59 trmbckr bridge, Lollar special S, and a 59 neck in a Ibanez rg 470ash with a rosewood neck. My questions are is there a huge difference between how the neck 59 pickup is voiced in comparison to the bridge? As far as tonality is concerned? Is the Bridge version a better option for the neck than the actual 59 neck pup?

The reason I ask is I have two other guitars that have 59's installed in the neck and they both sound drastically different than this Ibanez I just hooked up. One is a Charvel USA san dimas alder body,maple neck. And the other is a early nineties Washburn N2 I believe its a rosewood finger board. Not sure about the body. But both 59 neck pickups of the Charvel and Washburn sound similar. Not so much with this Ibanez. The Ibanez sounds the worse out of the three.

All three neck pickups are set to about the same height. The charvel is a bit brighter because of the alder body. But has that "throaty" tonality that you associate with a 59 in the neck. Good note articulation above the 12 the fret and isn't muddy. The N2 has the same qualities but sounds a lot "fatter". I'm guessing because the pickups are older. But one thing they have in common is no tone pots though. Is that the reason maybe?

The Ibanez with the 59n sounds terrible in this guitar and I can't figure out why. No matter how I've adjusted the pickup height it either gets muddier as I raise it and the notes are too rounded. Which is no good. Or with it being set lower its sounds really weak and lifeless and bland. I can't find a middle ground with this guitar. The bridge pickup and middle pickup sounds fine.

So how do you guys use your 59's? Are you running a bridge version in the neck? Or the standard neck version? Or what would be a better alternative for a neck pickup? I went from a jazz neck to a 59 neck. Thinking it would suit my tonal needs more. I have a JB/jazz set in a drop C tuned guitar. Unfortunately the Jazz becomes to muddy with distortion. And I couldn't find a a happy medium of having enough gain for rhythm that wouldn't make the jazz to muddy for leads. So the 59n is a test run in this Ibanez.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
Last edited:
Re: Question for 59 users....

Possibly something to do with the Ibanez being the only 24 fret guitar out of the three. The neck pickup gets moved nearer to the bridge, lessening the sweetness and boom of the bass. I don't own a 59, but I do have a Jazz in an RG 920, and I can honestly say that I don't have many problems with it when it's in the sweet spot. I tried some pole piece tweaks that tightened up the bass and lower mids, but made it shrill and icepicky; thus, I reverted back to its original state.

Dunno how that will work with the 59. You could also try lowering the pickup until it's no longer muddy and raise the pole pieces.
 
Last edited:
Re: Question for 59 users....

Can you measure the DC resistance on the bad sounding neck pickup to make sure it's in the expected range for series wiring?

I think you can't expect as much consistency from lower output pickups because they're more subject to the tonal qualities of the guitar than higher output pickups will be. I had a similar disappointment when I put PG's in a light bodied guitar and was a little upset it wasn't as full sounding as I'd heard it in Les Pauls. I've come to like it for what it is, though.
 
Re: Question for 59 users....

Ash guitar body = less midrange than alder or mahogany. SH-1n = short on midrange also. Hence, the all-or-nothing sounds produced by your adjustments.

The displacement due to having twenty four frets is a factor. So is a two-point floating vibrato.

I own only one SH-1n at present. I made it sound the way I wanted by changing to an A4 bar magnet and reinstating its metal cover.
 
Re: Question for 59 users....

I see the fret issue has been brought up, I agree that's probably the biggest factor in the difference in tones you're getting....I would consider swapping the 59 for a Demon and put it in the neck....
 
Re: Question for 59 users....

Archer250 said:
Possibly something to do with the Ibanez being the only 24 fret guitar out of the three. The neck pickup gets moved nearer to the bridge, lessening the sweetness and boom of the bass. I don't own a 59, but I do have a Jazz in an RG 920, and I can honestly say that I don't have many problems with it when it's in the sweet spot. I tried some pole piece tweaks that tightened up the bass and lower mids, but made it shrill and icepicky; thus, I reverted back to its original state.

Dunno how that will work with the 59. You could also try lowering the pickup until it's no longer muddy and raise the pole pieces.
Click to expand...

I might give that a shot.....right now the pickup is set fairly low. And going any higher makes the bass strings sound "rubbery" and "flabby". I've tried angling the treble side a bit higher but then the treble strings become "rubbery" and not tight. Right now the pickup is almost parallel to top of the pickup ring. Just a hair or two higher. Which doesn't sound to muddy. But it doesn't pop either. It's just blah lol....preciate the suggestion. So we'll see
 
Re: Question for 59 users....

DreX said:
Can you measure the DC resistance on the bad sounding neck pickup to make sure it's in the expected range for series wiring?

I think you can't expect as much consistency from lower output pickups because they're more subject to the tonal qualities of the guitar than higher output pickups will be. I had a similar disappointment when I put PG's in a light bodied guitar and was a little upset it wasn't as full sounding as I'd heard it in Les Pauls. I've come to like it for what it is, though.
Click to expand...

Good point....I'm kind of working through that feeling at the moment with this guitar. What's bugging me is that the charvel and n2 have drastically different woods and body types. But with that being said there is a "tonal similarity" with the neck pickups of these two guitars. They sound similar. The Ibanez sounds like Sh*T lol. And that's what's blowing my mind. It doesn't even sound like a 59 is even in there in comparison to the other two. My 59 sounds like cheap aftermarket copy of the other two.
 
Re: Question for 59 users....

What kind of ash is that Ibby? If it's the early 90s N2 that I'm thinking of, it should also be alder. But the type of ash in that Ibby could be something to consider, all other things being equal.

I've moved away from the 59n, even with an A4. A Jazz neck with an A4 or a 59/Jazz neck with an A4 has been cutting the mustard for a while now.




Sent from my armored battle station using Tapatalk
 
Re: Question for 59 users....

Funkfingers said:
Ash guitar body = less midrange than alder or mahogany. SH-1n = short on midrange also. Hence, the all-or-nothing sounds produced by your adjustments.

The displacement due to having twenty four frets is a factor. So is a two-point floating vibrato.

I own only one SH-1n at present. I made it sound the way I wanted by changing to an A4 bar magnet and reinstating its metal cover.
Click to expand...

I wasn't aware ash lacked mid range......maybe I should of thrown the JB and jazz in the ash guitar versus the basswood ibanez I installed them in? I figured the 24 frets might have impact the tone. But the stock neck pickup that's in there wasn't that bad but not quite the sound I want. I know they're cheap. So I didn't want to keep them. But your response provides some insight I didn't account for. What would thrown in a ash or basswood guitar?

I have a dimebucker bridge left....I have a evolution bridge....and I'm about to exchange another 59 neck....for a dimarzio super distortion bridge....because I bought two 59 necks.
 
Re: Question for 59 users....

LatsMcGee said:
I see the fret issue has been brought up, I agree that's probably the biggest factor in the difference in tones you're getting....I would consider swapping the 59 for a Demon and put it in the neck....
Click to expand...

I'm contemplating that....I've seen a youtube video of a guy who through one in the neck of one of his strats. I liked how it sounded. I'm looking for a "straty" sound out of a humbucker. I'm not big into the "rounded' "Bassy" sound you typically get from a humbucker. Like that "sweet child of mine" neck pup tone. Sounds like a flute. Not crazy about that tone.

And most neck pickups I've heard kind of have that vibe. I want a neck pickup that will smooth out the notes just a bit. But retain clarity when you dig in or play fast passages. That also gives you those overtones you get from a neck pickup. That will allow you to get nasty with the blues. Without turning into a bassy muddy mess. Thanks for the suggestion!
 
Re: Question for 59 users....

darthphineas said:
What kind of ash is that Ibby? If it's the early 90s N2 that I'm thinking of, it should also be alder. But the type of ash in that Ibby could be something to consider, all other things being equal.

I've moved away from the 59n, even with an A4. A Jazz neck with an A4 or a 59/Jazz neck with an A4 has been cutting the mustard for a while now.




Sent from my armored battle station using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about the type of ash in the Ibanez....I'm guessing its not super high quality ash lol. Hmm very interesting suggestion. I wish more users would post sound samples or youtube videos of modded hybrid pickups. I'm nervous about performing surgery on my pickups lol. What did the A4 magnet do for your 59/jazz?

I'm assuming thats a hybrid pickup you made right?
 
Re: Question for 59 users....

Well, there are different types of ash...not as much as getting into the quality/selection.

Do a search for a thread called something like "teach me about magnets", which is something that should really be a sticky. Blueman does a good job of describing the different types of pickups in that thread.

Don't put too much trust in what you are and hear on YouTube and soundcloud unless you have a relative frame of reference. A pickup might sound awesome or it might sound like ass...in either case, you risk not knowing the many aspects involved in how it was recorded that might have made one that's not for you sound awesome or one that'd be great for you sound like ass.


Sent from my armored battle station using Tapatalk
 
Re: Question for 59 users....

No tone pot makes a big difference. The voicing of a '59N and '59B is similar, the bridge model just has some extra turns of wire.
 
Re: Question for 59 users....

Just a update....

I tried adjusting the pickup screw pole pieces by lowering them on the bass side. Seemed like I made it sound worse. But then I decided to look at my charvel and I noticed the screw poles are all recessed in that neck pickup. You can rub your finger over them and barely feel them. I never noticed that since I bought this guitar used. So I also checked my N2 neck pickup and none of screws are lowered.

So I measured the height of middle of the neck pickup at the bottom of the 6th string and 1st of the charvel. I then raised the pickups on the Ibanez to match the same height. And tried to approximate the same amount of depth the screw coils are recessed in the charvel neck pickup. That has seemed to get me more tonal parity to what I hear from both guitars.

It's still not perfect because of the differences in woods,wiring and builds. I guess I'm getting a little more sound from the slug coil. But adjusting the pole pieces helped. I'll probably still look at changing them to something else that will complement the ash wood. But now I know I can tweak things a bit more concerning pickups.

Thanks to those who offered suggestions and advice. It's appreciated
 
Re: Question for 59 users....

BYN said:
Just a update....

I tried adjusting the pickup screw pole pieces by lowering them on the bass side. Seemed like I made it sound worse. But then I decided to look at my charvel and I noticed the screw poles are all recessed in that neck pickup. You can rub your finger over them and barely feel them. I never noticed that since I bought this guitar used. So I also checked my N2 neck pickup and none of screws are lowered.

So I measured the height of middle of the neck pickup at the bottom of the 6th string and 1st of the charvel. I then raised the pickups on the Ibanez to match the same height. And tried to approximate the same amount of depth the screw coils are recessed in the charvel neck pickup. That has seemed to get me more tonal parity to what I hear from both guitars.

It's still not perfect because of the differences in woods,wiring and builds. I guess I'm getting a little more sound from the slug coil. But adjusting the pole pieces helped. I'll probably still look at changing them to something else that will complement the ash wood. But now I know I can tweak things a bit more concerning pickups.

Thanks to those who offered suggestions and advice. It's appreciated
Click to expand...

You're supposed to raise it on the bass side...
But seeing has you have arrived at a solution, all is well! ;)
 
Re: Question for 59 users....

Are the pot values the same in the different guitars?. That could make a difference.
Al
 
Re: Question for 59 users....

Archer250 said:
You're supposed to raise it on the bass side...
But seeing has you have arrived at a solution, all is well! ;)
Click to expand...

My whole issue was that the Neck PUP seemed to bassy and sterile sounding. I would assume by raising the bass screws the 59 will become more muddy without lowering the pickup a bit to compensate?

I just could not seem to find a sweet spot for good neck pickup tonality using a 59. But the 59's on the Charvel and N2 "pop" more on those guitars and seemed to have better treble response and "body" to the notes. The neck pickup just sounds more alive if that makes sense. Whereas 59's in the Ibanez sound muddier. Which might be because of that tone knob. The neck pickup might just sound better without one.

Or maybe the pickups are just made a bit differently. But when I recessed the screw pole pieces a bit. The 59 kind of sounds a little bit like a Jazz if you can believe that. Kind of weird. I have since moved the pole pieces back up. So I'm still tinkering lol. I think I might try a 59 hybrid in the neck and bridge. Or a screaming demon in the neck and bridge.
 
Re: Question for 59 users....

24 frets has pretty much everything to do with the difference. Those two extra frets push the neck pickup about 3/8" closer to the bridge which completely changes the sound. It sounds about halfway between a neck pickup and a middle pickup, doesn't it?
 
Re: Question for 59 users....

Zombiwoof said:
Are the pot values the same in the different guitars?. That could make a difference.
Al
Click to expand...

I'm not sure. The Ibanez pots are 500k the one I fried said it on the board. I did try to look in the charvel. But there are clobs of solder on the pots of the other guitars so its hard to tell.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top