question on '59n/CC for Epi LP...

[mi_canuck]

I just picked up this mint Epiphone Les Paul Standard Plus yesterday. Heritage Cherry Sunburst. It's a '91 model. Weighs in at a healthy 9lbs.

I'll most likely eventually upgrade the pickups and electronics. I have a Jazz/JB in my Epi SG already. (Although I may end up selling it, but not sure yet).

For my Epi LP - thinking of trying maybe '59/CC(b). What I'd be gunning for is somewhat of a cross between Led Zep (Jimmy Page) and Josh Homme (Queens of the Stone Age). I believe Josh uses a CC but not sure if he uses it in his Ovation Ultra GP (which is like a LP sort of), or in his Epi Dot. But at the same wondering, wondering if I can still be able to play stuff like Tool (Adam Jones uses a JB in his Silverburst LP), Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins. Although that might contradict the above?? So with that said, should I stick with Jazz/JB in the LP as well, or go for the '59/CC (SH-11) combo, or maybe (SH-5 Custom, or SH-14 Custom5?)

cheers


(crappy phone pics)

 

[NevermindUs]

Re: question on '59n/CC for Epi LP...

hey! im getting the CC to for that same josh homme type sound! i dont know if it will work in mine, but from what ive been told is that josh's guitar with the sh11 in it is made of magohony like your les paul, so it should be close, taking into account his amplifiers, studio eq'ing, and the fact that troy's gutiar mixes with his to create a big sound. good luck!

 

[mi_canuck]

Re: question on '59n/CC for Epi LP...

i just want to get somewhat close.... not trying to replicate it exactly... let us know how it works out in yours... i might be a couple months away from swapping out the electronics...

peace

 

[blueman335]

Re: question on '59n/CC for Epi LP...

Some call me the reigning king of upgrading Epi's with American-made PU's (other call me "cheap"). Here's what I use:

I like the '59N/C5 apir, or a JazzN/C5. I use 250K pots on the bridge to take the excess treble off the C5. Nice powerful late 1960's Brit blues/rock tones.

If you go with a CC (which is a C5 with an A2), you'll want 500K's on the bridge or you'll sound too compressed. The Custom is the same again with a ceramic, which to me, is bright, cold, harsh, and the worst of the bunch (change the magnet & it warms up just fine).

I also like the PAF route, with a pair of '59's or a pair of Dimarzio PAF's.

I also have an Epi LP with a DiMarzio Bluesbucker/Fred, which is a very nice match. The Fred is medium output, so it falls between a '59B & a C5.

As far as getting the exact sound you want, remember that every piece of wood is different (grain, density, etc), and these guys have different amps, effects, and playing techniques. You could play their guitars through their amps & sound nothing like them. To get where you want to go, you probably have to do a few things different than they did, because of all the variables.

If you're thinking about selling your Epi SG, is it because the sound isn't what you want? If so, I'd say the JB is the culprit. I've tried several of them in LP's SG's, & 335's, and the icepick tone was awful in everything. SG's have a thinner tone than an LP, with a little less sustain (from the thin body), so they often need warmer PU's. Try 250K's on the JB, or a warmer magnet (some guys like them with A2's); I'd try an A4 or A3 myself. If that doesn't work, sell the JB & get a Fred, C5, or CC for it.

 

[mi_canuck]

Re: question on '59n/CC for Epi LP...

if i do sell my SG - nothing to do with the sound... actually love it. call me nuts, but i really like the JB - and i know you're the JB's biggest opponent (which is fine, we all have our preferences)

if i sell the SG it's due to comfort factor

since i like the midrange and clean tone of the JB in my SG, then perhaps the Custom wouldn't be out of question for someone like me... although when listening to the tone sample audio on SD's site, I really liked the sound of the SH-11 (Custom Custom) for the dirty bridge... so might try that first... (for some reason, there's no sound clips of the C5)

what would be a good or better match for the neck in combo with a CC in the bridge position? '59 or Jazz? i don't want my neck and bridge too similar... i'd like a good contrast (like i get with jazz/jb on my SG)... i'm wondering if the '59 might sound too muddy for my ears?

i'll mostly likely be using a wiring kit from RSGuitarworks, w/ 500K CTS pots and their Jensen oil & paper .015/.022 caps



cheers

 

[blueman335]

Re: question on '59n/CC for Epi LP...

if i do sell my SG - nothing to do with the sound... actually love it. call me nuts, but i really like the JB - and i know you're the JB's biggest opponent (which is fine, we all have our preferences)

if i sell the SG it's due to comfort factor. since i like the midrange and clean tone of the JB in my SG, then perhaps the Custom wouldn't be out of question for someone like me... although when listening to the tone sample audio on SD's site, I really liked the sound of the SH-11 (Custom Custom) for the dirty bridge... so might try that first... (for some reason, there's no sound clips of the C5)

what would be a good or better match for the neck in combo with a CC in the bridge position? '59 or Jazz? i don't want my neck and bridge too similar... i'd like a good contrast (like i get with jazz/jb on my SG)... i'm wondering if the '59 might sound too muddy for my ears?

Getting a Custom, C5, or CC means they're the same PU with different magnets, so if your tone isn't quite what you want, get a few different replacement magnets & experiment with them. I'd start with either the C5 or CC, as they'll give you the best chance of being what you want off the bat.

On a LP, my first neck choice is a JazzN, as it's bright, which will counteract the normal LP tendency to be overly dark & woofy in the neck. The '59N is my next choice; and it's not dark or muddy (because of the A5 magnet). Where you get a muddy neck is from some A2 PU's in certain woods. No treble from the wood or magnet, and note definition is out the window.

Actually, the reason you like your SG's tones are because the PU's are similar, both are bright. The JazzN is low output, but it gets a huge volume boost from the neck position and the stronger string vibrations. The JB gets it's volume from being overwound. Both are moving the EQ in the same direction (which makes getting a good amp setting for both easy).

The classic opposite EQ pair is the Gibson 490R/498T, hated by many, as the magnets push both PU's EQ's in totally opposite directions (neck very dark, bridge very bright), and almost no one can get both PU's to sound good on the same amp setting. This is textbook "what not to do."

I wish I was "the JB's biggest opponent", but there are many, many players vying for that title, and even some of it's biggest fans call it "atrocious" in some guitars.

 

[NevermindUs]

Re: question on '59n/CC for Epi LP...

i just want to get somewhat close.... not trying to replicate it exactly... let us know how it works out in yours... i might be a couple months away from swapping out the electronics...

peace

well im building a custom guitar. i still have to paint the body and neck, install the bridge and tuners, and wire the whole thing up. i was thinking abuot possibly putting the CC in my other iceman, which is magohony, but i dont know since it will sound different in my custom alder/maple iceman:fingersx:

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: question on '59n/CC for Epi LP...

I had the 59n CCb in my Warmoth Strat...alder body, maple neck, rosewood board. It sounded awesome, definitely got me the Josh Homme crunch...this set-up would sound great in an LP because it would have MORE of everything.

 

[NevermindUs]

Re: question on '59n/CC for Epi LP...

I had the 59n CCb in my Warmoth Strat...alder body, maple neck, rosewood board. It sounded awesome, definitely got me the Josh Homme crunch...this set-up would sound great in an LP because it would have MORE of everything.

thats awesome, cause then i can assume that my tone will be a bit brighter than josh's due to the maple top on mine, and thats exactly what i was looking for:dance: i was thinking about a 59n too, but im also thinking about the APH2n. im just hoping it wont sound too similar....

 

[mi_canuck]

Re: question on '59n/CC for Epi LP...

Getting a Custom, C5, or CC means they're the same PU with different magnets, so if your tone isn't quite what you want, get a few different replacement magnets & experiment with them. I'd start with either the C5 or CC, as they'll give you the best chance of being what you want off the bat.

On a LP, my first neck choice is a JazzN, as it's bright, which will counteract the normal LP tendency to be overly dark & woofy in the neck. The '59N is my next choice; and it's not dark or muddy (because of the A5 magnet). Where you get a muddy neck is from some A2 PU's in certain woods. No treble from the wood or magnet, and note definition is out the window.

Actually, the reason you like your SG's tones are because the PU's are similar, both are bright. The JazzN is low output, but it gets a huge volume boost from the neck position and the stronger string vibrations. The JB gets it's volume from being overwound. Both are moving the EQ in the same direction (which makes getting a good amp setting for both easy).

The classic opposite EQ pair is the Gibson 490R/498T, hated by many, as the magnets push both PU's EQ's in totally opposite directions (neck very dark, bridge very bright), and almost no one can get both PU's to sound good on the same amp setting. This is textbook "what not to do."

I wish I was "the JB's biggest opponent", but there are many, many players vying for that title, and even some of it's biggest fans call it "atrocious" in some guitars.

would it make a difference if the pickups were covered vs uncovered? i'm thinking of maybe sticking with the covered look (although I may go with the zebra uncovered look). i've got to think that the covers have an effect... seems like covered p/u's sound a bit different... can't quite describe... like they add that little bit of metallic grind to the sound...


thnx

 

[NevermindUs]

Re: question on '59n/CC for Epi LP...

would it make a difference if the pickups were covered vs uncovered? i'm thinking of maybe sticking with the covered look (although I may go with the zebra uncovered look). i've got to think that the covers have an effect... seems like covered p/u's sound a bit different... can't quite describe... like they add that little bit of metallic grind to the sound...


thnx

to my understanding covered pickups have a little less output , warmer, and more even. personally im going with the zebras! i love them zebras!:headbang:

 

[blueman335]

Re: question on '59n/CC for Epi LP...

to my understanding covered pickups have a little less output , warmer, and more even. personally im going with the zebras! i love them zebras!:headbang:

Covered PU's also have more shielding & noise reduction. I don't know if there's a point to the extra treble you get with open coil PU's, as I've never maxed out the treble control on any amp I've ever played through.

 

[NevermindUs]

Re: question on '59n/CC for Epi LP...

Covered PU's also have more shielding & noise reduction. I don't know if there's a point to the extra treble you get with open coil PU's, as I've never maxed out the treble control on any amp I've ever played through.

true, but im one of those people who like a very slashing guitar sound. plus i use a bass head as my amp, so techincally i dont even have (guitar)treble control. but even so, i always have my tone on 10 and my amp treble on ten, but my pedals are never all the way on the treble side of their tone controls. i dont know, its just what works for me.

 

[mi_canuck]

Re: question on '59n/CC for Epi LP...

i caught the thread on the SH-15... i think that's what i may go for...

any thoughts on how a '59n would pair up with a an SH-15 (the new "Alternative 8"?)


cheers

 

[mi_canuck]

Re: question on '59n/CC for Epi LP...

any thoughts/opinions on if i could get near "this" sound with my LP (specifically from about 4:58 to 5:46ish)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO_EgW1zxWQ

i realise the amps, the MAN himself, etc play a huge part in the sound, but just referring to the tone in this instance... (i believe he uses custom gibson burstbucker pros... ??? that's what's in his current sig model from gibson custom shop... but i'd like to know the equivalent in the SD world of pickups)



cheers

 

[gnoleb]

Re: question on '59n/CC for Epi LP...

I also have an Epi LP with a DiMarzio Bluesbucker/Fred, which is a very nice match. The Fred is medium output, so it falls between a '59B & a C5.

How does that pair sound? I just ordered a covered Bluesbucker from Ebay, and I'm trying to pick out a bridge combination for my semi-hollowbody.

 

[mi_canuck]

Re: question on '59n/CC for Epi LP...

ok - i picked up a new '59n (SH-1N) at GC tonight (got a decent deal so bought it - alas no SH-15s.... guess they're not in stores)... got a black one (since i'm going to cover it, otherwise would have gotten a zebra, which they didn't have anyways)

question though - is it normal on '59n's to have tape wrap around both coils only on one side?? kinda like this pic (this is a white one though):

thnx

 

[Aceman]

Re: question on '59n/CC for Epi LP...

59 / CC should work just fine! Remember - crank up the treble poles on the CC if you feel there are not enough highs, and adding or creating shorter shafted poles on the bass end will tighten up the CC's bass.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: question on '59n/CC for Epi LP...

ok - i picked up a new '59n (SH-1N) at GC tonight (got a decent deal so bought it - alas no SH-15s.... guess they're not in stores)... got a black one (since i'm going to cover it, otherwise would have gotten a zebra, which they didn't have anyways)

question though - is it normal on '59n's to have tape wrap around both coils only on one side?? kinda like this pic (this is a white one though):

thnx

Yes. That looks normal to me.

 

[mi_canuck]

Re: question on '59n/CC for Epi LP...

i haven't bought a bridge p/u yet (i have a '59N ready for the neck)... i was thinking CC or even the new SH-15 (Alternative 8) for my Epi LP Std.

but the more i listen to my live Led Zep albums (song remains the same, how the west was won) and the DVD (particularly Earl's Court performance)... i'm definitely digging the Page sound... just as much as i like Josh Homme's (which is still somewhat similar i find... Josh's a bit dirtier/bassier)...

reading some older posts, seems like a '59B might get close to that Page sound (obviously there's other components that will affect that too).... but from a pickup standpoint, the 59B seems like it would be a good bet... with a hot rod dlx amp, i don't think i'll find it not hot enough... just worried about lack of mids - which i kinda like

would an SH-15 be too far off from a '59B to get similar tones to Page... or is a '59B the best bet?.... or maybe the C5 is the answer as it's like a hotter '59b, no?



cheers