Question on tube types. Wing C SED EL34 to replace stock tubes
- Thread starter chillytouch
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beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Question on tube types. Wing C SED EL34 to replace stock tubes
Calm down. The name was just a passing comment. I’m mainly looking at the spec sheet used to design circuits. That isn’t marketing. For a pentode where the suppressor isn’t wired to the cathode, there shouldn’t be significant changes needed to interchange with a beam tetrode. Pin out is the same, just values vary slightly.
Calm down. The name was just a passing comment. I’m mainly looking at the spec sheet used to design circuits. That isn’t marketing. For a pentode where the suppressor isn’t wired to the cathode, there shouldn’t be significant changes needed to interchange with a beam tetrode. Pin out is the same, just values vary slightly.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Question on tube types. Wing C SED EL34 to replace stock tubes
That’s interesting because my Traynor YBA-1 came stock with 6CA7s, even shows on the factory schematic glued into the top.
That’s interesting because my Traynor YBA-1 came stock with 6CA7s, even shows on the factory schematic glued into the top.
devastone
New member
Re: Question on tube types. Wing C SED EL34 to replace stock tubes
To the best of my understanding 6CA7s are pentodes just like EL34s, the exception here is apparently the EH branded ones which are apparently tetrodes. I don't have a dog in this fight and have used 6CA7s in Marshalls in the past, may have been EHs, I honestly don't remember. To be safe, I would probably not use EHs in your Traynor.
The OP apparently has credit at The Tube Store, not the Mesa store. FWIW, I still wouldn't pay $100 for the set when there are tubes that are just as good (IMHO) for 1/2 the price.
To the best of my understanding 6CA7s are pentodes just like EL34s, the exception here is apparently the EH branded ones which are apparently tetrodes. I don't have a dog in this fight and have used 6CA7s in Marshalls in the past, may have been EHs, I honestly don't remember. To be safe, I would probably not use EHs in your Traynor.
The OP apparently has credit at The Tube Store, not the Mesa store. FWIW, I still wouldn't pay $100 for the set when there are tubes that are just as good (IMHO) for 1/2 the price.
JMP/HBE
Well-known member
Re: Question on tube types. Wing C SED EL34 to replace stock tubes
lol im calm just don't like going for a ride on the JJ merry go round. I got 15 years of this "JJ tubes are great" stuff and quite the contrary. Is pin out important ? You bet your bippy. But getting the pin out correct doesn't necessarily make a great tube but it may keep your amp off the bench.
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chillytouch
New member
Re: Question on tube types. Wing C SED EL34 to replace stock tubes
I didn't mean to cause any arguments haha.
So I ended up getting the wing C. I only got to play for like 10 minutes though but they sounded great from what i could hear. I think I like them better than the el34ii.
One thing I noticed though, usually when I play my evh amp, the master vol stays on like 1-2. Today after I changed the tubes I hooked it up to a boss waza tube expander and turned the volume up to about 4-5. Sounded good but I did notice a little smell from the amp when I put my face closer to it. Is that normal? Was sorta like mild burning smell. Not sure if its because of the new tubes, or because I've never put the volume higher than 1-2. No smoke or anything like that.
I didn't mean to cause any arguments haha.
So I ended up getting the wing C. I only got to play for like 10 minutes though but they sounded great from what i could hear. I think I like them better than the el34ii.
One thing I noticed though, usually when I play my evh amp, the master vol stays on like 1-2. Today after I changed the tubes I hooked it up to a boss waza tube expander and turned the volume up to about 4-5. Sounded good but I did notice a little smell from the amp when I put my face closer to it. Is that normal? Was sorta like mild burning smell. Not sure if its because of the new tubes, or because I've never put the volume higher than 1-2. No smoke or anything like that.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Question on tube types. Wing C SED EL34 to replace stock tubes
If the tubes were NOS and were dirty or had oil on them from handling, that could burn off if heated up for the first time in years. Do you have to put your nose right up to where the tubes are to detect it? Or do you smell it standing feet away while playing? (If it’s the latter there might be a different, more serious issue.)
If the tubes were NOS and were dirty or had oil on them from handling, that could burn off if heated up for the first time in years. Do you have to put your nose right up to where the tubes are to detect it? Or do you smell it standing feet away while playing? (If it’s the latter there might be a different, more serious issue.)
JMP/HBE
Well-known member
Re: Question on tube types. Wing C SED EL34 to replace stock tubes
No not normal Did you bias your amp when installing the new tubes ? Do you know what an amp bias is ? I kinda doubt it cuz until yesterday u dint even know what a =C= was/
Nothing should be "burning" in a tube amp.
Were your power tubes glowing like orange fireballs ?
No not normal Did you bias your amp when installing the new tubes ? Do you know what an amp bias is ? I kinda doubt it cuz until yesterday u dint even know what a =C= was/
Nothing should be "burning" in a tube amp.
Were your power tubes glowing like orange fireballs ?
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chillytouch
New member
Re: Question on tube types. Wing C SED EL34 to replace stock tubes
I'll take a look at the back next time i use it. Basically when I first put the tubes back and booted it up, I was connected to the tube expander. I turned volume to about noon, played a bit and when I put my head close to the amp I smelled it a bit.
After that I disconnected it from the tube expander and plugged it right into the speaker cab. For this I kept the master vol super low, like 1-2. Played for 10 minutes, no smell.
I didn't bias it. I was told these amps run cold so there's not much risk in damaging it, BUT I am going to get it biased. I just can't right now because my local shop is closed... I'm hoping they can do it next month if not then June... I'll check for red-plating.
For what it's worth they sounded really awesome the few minutes I did try it. I definitely have to figure out the settings on the waza tube expander though, because it sounded way better straight through the cab. I bought the TE so i could push the power tubes.
No not normal Did you bias your amp when installing the new tubes ? Do you know what an amp bias is ? I kinda doubt it cuz until yesterday u dint even know what a =C= was/
Nothing should be "burning" in a tube amp.
Were your power tubes glowing like orange fireballs ?
I'll take a look at the back next time i use it. Basically when I first put the tubes back and booted it up, I was connected to the tube expander. I turned volume to about noon, played a bit and when I put my head close to the amp I smelled it a bit.
After that I disconnected it from the tube expander and plugged it right into the speaker cab. For this I kept the master vol super low, like 1-2. Played for 10 minutes, no smell.
I didn't bias it. I was told these amps run cold so there's not much risk in damaging it, BUT I am going to get it biased. I just can't right now because my local shop is closed... I'm hoping they can do it next month if not then June... I'll check for red-plating.
For what it's worth they sounded really awesome the few minutes I did try it. I definitely have to figure out the settings on the waza tube expander though, because it sounded way better straight through the cab. I bought the TE so i could push the power tubes.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Question on tube types. Wing C SED EL34 to replace stock tubes
If it’s biased cold, it would have sounded dark, rather than awesome. If it sounded bright and awesome it likely would have been running the tubes hot.
I’m not familiar with the BOSS Tube Expander, but if it’s anything like a Weber MASS, mine has an actual speaker driver inside as the variable load (without any cone to produce sound) and it smelled the first few hours of use in its life, then stopped)
If it’s biased cold, it would have sounded dark, rather than awesome. If it sounded bright and awesome it likely would have been running the tubes hot.
I’m not familiar with the BOSS Tube Expander, but if it’s anything like a Weber MASS, mine has an actual speaker driver inside as the variable load (without any cone to produce sound) and it smelled the first few hours of use in its life, then stopped)
devastone
New member
Re: Question on tube types. Wing C SED EL34 to replace stock tubes
There is a lot of heat being generated from the tubes and what ever load box you are using, so, there is probably some smell for the first few uses. But yes, make sure the tubes are glowing just lightly orange, not red.
And, if you turned the volume up when you put the new tubes in, yes, of course they sound better than the other ones at low volumes. I hope they are everything you hoped for, especially at that price, I understand, sometimes we just have to try something for ourselves.
There is a lot of heat being generated from the tubes and what ever load box you are using, so, there is probably some smell for the first few uses. But yes, make sure the tubes are glowing just lightly orange, not red.
And, if you turned the volume up when you put the new tubes in, yes, of course they sound better than the other ones at low volumes. I hope they are everything you hoped for, especially at that price, I understand, sometimes we just have to try something for ourselves.
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chillytouch
New member
Re: Question on tube types. Wing C SED EL34 to replace stock tubes
Ha, Wish I still lived with her. Would get to see her during all this craziness if that were the case.
Before you burn down yer Moms house you may want to ask her if her home-owners insurance premiums are paid up.
You're going to want to have 911 on speed dial too.
I give you about a 3% survival rate.
Ha, Wish I still lived with her. Would get to see her during all this craziness if that were the case.
JMP/HBE
Well-known member
Re: Question on tube types. Wing C SED EL34 to replace stock tubes
A] He swapped power tubes in a tube amp without biasing or checking plate voltage.
B] He is juicing the amp with an attenuator with said un-biased tubes.
C] Amp is emitting "burning smell".
Doesn't take a PhD to see where this is going.
All my amps including my 42 yr old Marshall have a really cool "tube amp smell" but not even the slightest bit "burning".
Not going to affect my day to day operations if this guy fries his Mexican amp.
Maybe with no other contributing factors by itself but :
A] He swapped power tubes in a tube amp without biasing or checking plate voltage.
B] He is juicing the amp with an attenuator with said un-biased tubes.
C] Amp is emitting "burning smell".
Doesn't take a PhD to see where this is going.
All my amps including my 42 yr old Marshall have a really cool "tube amp smell" but not even the slightest bit "burning".
Not going to affect my day to day operations if this guy fries his Mexican amp.
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chillytouch
New member
Re: Question on tube types. Wing C SED EL34 to replace stock tubes
Well so, it went away when I disconnected it from the attenuator and plugged it right into the cab. so basically, it smelled a little when the vol was on 6 with the attenuator vs on 1-2 plugged into the cab where it didn't smell.
I'm going to test this again tonight. I will check the back for red plating and see.
I called my local music shop to see if they'd let me drop it off for biasing since their showroom is closed but they're still operating, but they're not taking any new jobs. stinks.
Also, I gotta be honest maybe what I was smelling was just the "Tube amp smell". Can't remember tbh, it was for like 2 seconds. Also how does the amp being made in Mexico factor in lol.
Well so, it went away when I disconnected it from the attenuator and plugged it right into the cab. so basically, it smelled a little when the vol was on 6 with the attenuator vs on 1-2 plugged into the cab where it didn't smell.
I'm going to test this again tonight. I will check the back for red plating and see.
I called my local music shop to see if they'd let me drop it off for biasing since their showroom is closed but they're still operating, but they're not taking any new jobs. stinks.
Also, I gotta be honest maybe what I was smelling was just the "Tube amp smell". Can't remember tbh, it was for like 2 seconds. Also how does the amp being made in Mexico factor in lol.
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Lake Placid Blues
New member
Re: Question on tube types. Wing C SED EL34 to replace stock tubes
Sometimes tubes with beam forming plates are called beam pentodes, instead of beam tetrodes or in Europe kinkless tetrodes. This is because the beam forming plates perform the essentially same function that a suppressor grid performs.
Strictly speaking a tube should have a suppressor grid to be a pentode. The suppressor grid is the 5th element. I guess we could stretch the definition a bit to say that beam forming plates are a 5th element as well. But this also why there is so much confusion about what is a pentode and what is beam tetrode.
They don't sound exactly the same. Beam tetrodes have more open mids, and pentodes have more dense mids.
Sometimes tubes with beam forming plates are called beam pentodes, instead of beam tetrodes or in Europe kinkless tetrodes. This is because the beam forming plates perform the essentially same function that a suppressor grid performs.
Strictly speaking a tube should have a suppressor grid to be a pentode. The suppressor grid is the 5th element. I guess we could stretch the definition a bit to say that beam forming plates are a 5th element as well. But this also why there is so much confusion about what is a pentode and what is beam tetrode.
They don't sound exactly the same. Beam tetrodes have more open mids, and pentodes have more dense mids.
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