Question regarding switching magnets on a P-90

[luvcrap2000]

I was toying with trying to get a more different sound on one of my P-90 guitars, and considering swapping the Neck magnet out Which is a Alnico V with a Ceramic 8 (Cost me about $5) and possible reversing it as well. Opinions?

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Question regarding switching magnets on a P-90

The magnetic world is your oyster.

Clearly, you have never investigated inside a P-90. It actually has two magnets, mounted in opposition to each other. This arrangement works in your favour. It allows you to combine the desirable qualities of two Alnico formulations at once.

Kojak, GuitarDoc and blueman will arrive shortly with helpful suggestions. Regrettably, Cer8 is unlikely to be amongst these. It would almost certainly turn a neck/Rhythm position P90 into a string pull monster.

 

[luvcrap2000]

Re: Question regarding switching magnets on a P-90

Correction-- $5.20, I get two magnets. Philly Luthier has them. Shouldn't be too hard swapping them over. Just curious to see if Reversed Ceramic Would have any Benefit.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Question regarding switching magnets on a P-90

Magnet reversal will turn the signal phase through 180 degrees - just like reversing the order of the output conductors. (On a P90 with single conductor + braided shield output cable, this only the only sensible option for correcting phase issues.)

On a guitar with two P90s spaced apart like a Gibson, the sound of both pickups together, in parallel and out-of-phase is pretty piss poor. With three P90s, spaced more closely together, like some Firebird variants, the adjacent pickup pairs can sound very interesting with no need to resort to phase reversal trickery.

Installing powerful ceramic magnets into a P90 type pickup will;
1) Kill off much of what is best about a P90
2) Induce additional interference and noise - especially through high gain amplification
3) Incur the wrath of blueman

 

[blueman335]

Re: Question regarding switching magnets on a P-90

True, not a fan of ceramics in P-90's, I replaced all of the ones in my Duncan SP90-2's and SP90-3's with alnicos.

My disappointment in Phat Cats lead me to try a variety of alnicos in them, and being a nonconformist, I threw all caution to the wind and paired up different magnets together (never had heard of that being done, but I later found out a few brave souls have tried it in the past). PU makers are usually very conservative in their magnet selections, the vast majority being used are A5, A2, and ceramic. But as us humbucker fans known, there's a lot more to magnets than that.

The two magnets are opposing each other for a reason, that's where the tone & volume come from. Try flipping one to prove it to yourself. After you put it back like it originally was, you'll understand the importance of putting replacement magnets in with the right orientation. Swap only one at a time, or you'll loose track of orientation. Slide the old one out halfway and hold the new one next to it so the ends repel and sides attract. That's your orientation. Then slide the old one out all the way and put the new one in.

Off the top of my head:
Pairs I've tried and/or used in the bridge slot:
A8/A4 - Use it a lot
A8/A5 - A little brighter
RC A4/RC A4 - Warm
UOA5/UOA5 - Warm with lots of texture, better high end than A2's
UOA5/A2 - Warm, lower output
A2/A2 - Weak and thin

Pairs I've tried/used in the neck slot:
A5/A4 - A little more mids and less low end that twin A5's
A5/A3 - Chimey in an SG
A3/A3 - Bright, but softer high end that A5's, big mids, no A5 boominess
A5/A2 - Warm, but not as dark as twin A2's

I prefer RC's in the bridge for the smoother high end and slightly more complex sound Likewise, I prefer polished in the neck slot for the sharper high end and slightly better clarity.

Unoriented magnets: A2, A3, A4, and UOA5
Oriented Magnets: A5, A6, A8, A9 (actually probably all from A6 to A12)

 

[Securb]

Re: Question regarding switching magnets on a P-90

For $10 I say buy the ceramic magnets and give them go. Everyone's tastes, styles, and tone are different. What doesn't work for others might be your holy grail. Experimentation it the key to unlocking creativity.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Question regarding switching magnets on a P-90

Experimentation is fine, but when there is good advice available from those who have already experimented, it might be wise to take that asvice and save yourself a lot of wasted time and frustration.

Like Blueman, I say that ceramics in a P-90 is a "not good" sound.

My first question for you has to be...What specifically are you trying to achieve in your neck P-90? If you only want a "different" sound then put a paper clip on top of it...a lot easier than taking it apart and it will sound much better than putting a ceramic 8 in it. If your current P-90 has dual A5's in it (most likely) then Blueman has offered a good explanation of the changes that you will hear from some magnet pairings.

My favorite in the bridge is A8/A5 (or A8/UOA5). In the neck, my preference is usually something to soften the highs, add mids, and reduce the boomy lows. There are many combinations which will give that result to varying degrees with different results in different guitars. You just need to try some combinations to see what you like. A4/A4 is a good place to start. You will probably decide that changing one of the A4's will be needed, but this will at least let you know where to go from there. I like A4/UOA5, sometimes even A4/A2 for lots of mids and a smooth mellow tone (not normally what you think of when talking about P-90's).

Definitely be careful about magnet orientation when swapping. Pay close attention to what has already been said about how to do it. When taking out one magnet you will think..."oh, I will remember how it goes", then you'll take it all the way out, set it on your desk, select the next mag to put in, and you'll get confused and forget how to orient it. Follow Blueman's advice, pull the old mag out half way and hold the replacement mag next to it side-by-side and end-to-end then MARK the replacement so you know which way to slide it in!

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Question regarding switching magnets on a P-90

Everyone's tastes, styles, and tone are different. What doesn't work for others might be your holy grail. Experimentation it the key to unlocking creativity.

I do use ceramic magnet P90s but only in the bridge/Treble position. (I have more or less given up mentioning this, partly because y'all must be bored of hearing it and partly to save others having to post to correct my foolish choices.)

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Question regarding switching magnets on a P-90

I do use ceramic magnet P90s but only in the bridge/Treble position. (I have more or less given up mentioning this, partly because y'all must be bored of hearing it and partly to save others having to post to correct my foolish choices.)

We all make foolish choices. Ceramics in p-90's is just one of them.

 

[luvcrap2000]

Re: Question regarding switching magnets on a P-90

Wow thanks all for the Great advice! Was a thought I'd take as it was cheap to experiment with.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Question regarding switching magnets on a P-90

Wow thanks all for the Great advice! Was a thought I'd take as it was cheap to experiment with.

It is cheap to experiment, that's why we do it.

Instead of cutting/removing strings, just loosen and retune them.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Question regarding switching magnets on a P-90

I for one, LOVE the Ceramics in my SP-3. It is the definition of RAWK. For those about to RAWK, I salute you. For the youth gone mild, there are other magnets.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Question regarding switching magnets on a P-90

I for one, LOVE the Ceramics in my SP-3. It is the definition of RAWK. For those about to RAWK, I salute you. For the youth gone mild, there are other magnets.

You might be off base on this one, maybe by a country mile. Young Iommi 'youth gone mild', not heavy, not RAWK?


"Tony Iommi Red Gibson SG Special 'Monkey.' This is the original SG that was used on the majority of the original line-up albums and tours. It has been identified by Gibson as a 1965 SG Special. It has a Gibson P90 pick up in the bridge position that was fitted into a metal case by John Birch. The neck pick up is a John Birch custom P90 type single coil."