question to anyone very familiar with A3 in strat pickups

[gimmieinfo]

I recently tried some A3 toneriders that came in a CV strat. I didn't like them in neck or middle but love them in the bridge. So i left the bridge (6.3k) in the CV and put the next highest output one (the middle) in the bridge of my other strat. Love it there too. But i then felt that they way they sounded they might be even better wound up more, so i bought a benson custom A3 @ 7.8k. Long story short, it's not near as good. the tonerider is smooth when driven and cleans up w/o getting thin even with a treble bleed. The Benson sounds kinda harsh and is no fuller or fatter sounding yet according to him when i talked to him it;s the same gauge as the tonerider.

The reason i asked for an answer from someone very familiar with A3 in strat pups is this question wouldn't be an easy one for most people given the fact A3 strat pups are not common. Anyways the question is, does A3 sound bad overwound? It hit me that the few i have seen are usually wound pretty low and maybe thats why this one sounds bad. Maybe A3 doesn't work well with high winds? I'm asking because i have unwound pickups many times and it;s easy enough to take another 1500R off the coil and bring it down to where the tonerider is. On the other hand if it sounds bad it's trash so i'm wondering if it's worth a shot or just sell it for about 1/2 and cut my losses.

 

[dystrust]

Re: question to anyone very familiar with A3 in strat pickups

AFAIK Fender CS 54s are A3, as are Fralin Real 54s. Both should be right around 6K or slightly more.

 

[gimmieinfo]

Re: question to anyone very familiar with A3 in strat pickups

AFAIK Fender CS 54s are A3, as are Fralin Real 54s. Both should be right around 6K or slightly more.

Well, that pretty much answers my question because i just looked at the fralins and the bridge is wound to 7.2k. Not quite as much as my benson but enough to answer my question. Guess the benson is just not a very good pickup. I just put the tonerider back and it's nite and day better. Back is all the fatness and richness and gone is the thin sound and hard attack. How does someone wind a much hotter A3 and make it sound like like it's wound much LOWER?! Winding technique? Bad materials? What a waste of $55...

 

[AlexR]

Re: question to anyone very familiar with A3 in strat pickups

You do need to adjust them a lot closer to the strings......or at least the BKP Apache's I have you need to.

But they are really sweet and full without any harsh top end and very balanced in the bridge.

A3 is just another mag.....it has its own personality. But like the other end of the mag spectrum (ceramic) you do have to be careful with the wind a bit. The most misses that people have had with A3 are when they just stick one in a pickup wound for another mag.
I have also p90's with A3, and also humbuckers. Whilst the p90's weren't wound specifically for the A3, the humbuckers were. They are a strong-end of the output range PAF clone but with the A3 to prevent them getting too full. In both cases they are superb pickups too - and more K rating than your strat pickups.

 

[gimmieinfo]

Re: question to anyone very familiar with A3 in strat pickups

Makes sense. I suspect he did just that....wound it as tho it were A5. I think an experienced winder probably knows the quirks of each magnet type and wind specifically for that. Apparently that didn't happen here. I'm really coming to appreciate how good that tonerider really is even more than i already thought. Didn't care for them in the other positions but in the bridge they seem like the fix for every typical strat bridge pickup issue you hear about regularly. At least for my ear. Should have left well enough alone !
By the way, the toneriders arent like that, IE; close to the strings. Mine sounds best about where i'd have A5. That sweet spot where as you lower them they just start to go from thin and harsh to sweet and soft. That exact in between point, which ends ip about where A5 ends up too.

You do need to adjust them a lot closer to the strings......or at least the BKP Apache's I have you need to.

But they are really sweet and full without any harsh top end and very balanced in the bridge.

A3 is just another mag.....it has its own personality. But like the other end of the mag spectrum (ceramic) you do have to be careful with the wind a bit. The most misses that people have had with A3 are when they just stick one in a pickup wound for another mag.
I have also p90's with A3, and also humbuckers. Whilst the p90's weren't wound specifically for the A3, the humbuckers were. They are a strong-end of the output range PAF clone but with the A3 to prevent them getting too full. In both cases they are superb pickups too - and more K rating than your strat pickups.

 

[Discharged]

Re: question to anyone very familiar with A3 in strat pickups

AFAIK Fender CS 54s are A3,.

Nope. They're A5.

/Peter

 

[dystrust]

Re: question to anyone very familiar with A3 in strat pickups

Nope. They're A5.

/Peter

So they are. Real '54s were A3 and I foolishly assumed that the Fender CS reissues would be as well. At least the Fralins actually are A3.

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: question to anyone very familiar with A3 in strat pickups

If your pickups bobbins are made from a single piece of injection molded plastic you can swap magnets fairly easy without damaging the pickup. If your pickups only have a fiber bottom and top plate and the coils are wound around the magnets you risk destroying the pickup.

These are generalities about pickups:

• Pickups with higher resistance and output tend to use lighter gauge wire to achieve more turns on the bobbin in the same amount of space, while lower resistance pickups use heavier gauge wire. Output isn't solely determined by resistance but in general they are related. A good pickup winder can compensate and substitute different techniques and materials to achieve tonal balance. The person who wound the pickup may have not experimented as much with A3 magnets to find the right balance of characteristics. Where as A2 and A5 pretty well worn paths.
• Higher resistance attenuates treble frequencies and emphasizes midrange and bass. The trade off is that a higher resistance and output pickup is more focused and controllable at high volume and distortion levels, but doesn't have as wide a dynamic range as a low output pickup.
• Each magnet type has its own magnetic properties and their own tone. The low magnetic pull and tone of an A3 magnet may allow for a wider dynamic range in a low resistance/output pickup. Higher resistance/output tends to focus on a narrower set of frequencies which shift when using different magnets. This is why the Duncan Custom is such a popular modding platform. Change the magnet and you drastically change the character of the pickup.

 

[Mr. B]

Re: question to anyone very familiar with A3 in strat pickups

Don't know that I ever heard an underwound A3 Single coil, but the Fender Highway Ones that came out after 2007 had Alnico 3 Singles in them, and I really liked them. I don't remember a lot of people praising them at the time, but I still use them. They hold up very well under gain, and still retain that strat sparkle when clean.

 

[gimmieinfo]

Re: question to anyone very familiar with A3 in strat pickups

Don't know that I ever heard an underwound A3 Single coil, but the Fender Highway Ones that came out after 2007 had Alnico 3 Singles in them, and I really liked them. I don't remember a lot of people praising them at the time, but I still use them. They hold up very well under gain, and still retain that strat sparkle when clean.

Well this one is way overwound (7.8k) but the thing i don't get is its thinner sounding with a harder attack and less harmonic complexity than the 6.3k A3 pickup it replaced. I'm stumped as to how that was "accomplished". How to you get a way over wound pickup to have all the hallmarks of a under wound one? Bad quality materials? Bad winding technique? I'm curious.

 

[chadd]

Re: question to anyone very familiar with A3 in strat pickups

I have a set of RH Factor A3 pickups that I'm pretty sure are just private label Tonerider Surfaris. I found them to be really bright and harsh. So much so, that the only one still in my guitar is the middle and it sounds like a bright strat bridge pickup. That actually works well, as I now have it set up as an HSS arrangement and it's incredibly versatile.