Questions about open humbucker cover.

[beaubrummels]

Re: Questions about open humbucker cover.

I'm speaking of this:

If the cover were to have a very fine cut through it somewhere, there would be virtually no eddy currents to speak of.

You made this assertion. Now prove it with empirical data that you yourself collected.

 

[thanaton]

Re: Questions about open humbucker cover.

So then you are confirming what everyone is saying...that there is no perceptible sound difference with open covers as opposed to no covers.
Then why are you being so dogmatic and argumentative?!
Drop your pride and just say..."yes I agree, and physics proves that there is no audible difference".
Period.
End of story.

And as an added benefit, you don't rile and upset/stress all of the other good members of this forum.

I never claimed you would or wouldn't hear a difference. I saw confusion in the thread as to how an open top cover compares to having no cover at all, as well as confusion over the types of noise that a cover blocks out, versus the type of noise that humbucking cancels out, so I've stated facts in relation to just those two points.

 

[thanaton]

Re: Questions about open humbucker cover.

I'm speaking of this:



You made this assertion. Now prove it with empirical data that you yourself collected.

Here's a picture:

The green circle is literally "current", eddy "current", moving though the "conductive material". If you cut the material from the center of the green circle out like so:

the air in that cut is an insulator, so the current will not be able to flow in that circular pattern, and you will not get a corresponding magnetic field that opposes that of the moving guitar string.

These types of cuts are also found in transformer cores, they're called "laminated cores", and they reduce eddy currents in the same way:

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Questions about open humbucker cover.

Here's a picture:

The green circle is literally "current", eddy "current", moving though the "conductive material". If you cut the material from the center of the green circle out like so:

the air in that cut is an insulator, so the current will not be able to flow in that circular pattern, and you will not get a corresponding magnetic field that opposes that of the moving guitar string.

These types of cuts are also found in transformer cores, they're called "laminated cores", and they reduce eddy currents in the same way:

All of this is generalizations found on the internet that you yourself have not tested or collected empirical data on. In particular, you haven't demonstrated the shape and direction of eddy currents in a pickup cover nor tested that slicing into the sides of a pickup cover will change them.

As far as I'm concerned, you have no credibility. You have never demonstrated any direct hands-on experience with instruments, pickups, music, electronics or even physics. You just post stuff you found on the internet.

But with that I made my point, and I agree with others that the thread should get back to the detectable tonal/sonic differences of a pickup cover that doesn't cover the bobbin tops, if any can be observed and under what conditions.

 

[thanaton]

Re: Questions about open humbucker cover.

All of this is generalizations found on the internet that you yourself have not tested or collected empirical data on. In particular, you haven't demonstrated the shape and direction of eddy currents in a pickup cover nor tested that slicing into the sides of a pickup cover will change them.

There is no question as to the shape or direction of the eddy currents, because if you know the orientation of the moving magnetic fields that induce them, then you know the orientation of the eddy currents in turn... because science. You would have to convince me that pickups somehow defy the laws of physics before I would waste my time setting out to prove that they defy physics.

Whether you think I'm credible or not is not my concern. The onus is on you to learn about these concepts for yourself, if you take any interest in them, but I presume you don't, if you haven't bothered to read up on it by now.

 

[thanaton]

Re: Questions about open humbucker cover.

You take theoretical physics to be the final answer.

Wait wait, eddy currents are certainly not theoretical. What I'm really curious to know is why anyone disagrees with what I have stated. I've asked for specifics, but all you guys are offering is vague aspersions.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Questions about open humbucker cover.

We're not saying whether we believe or not, you just need to prove what you're saying.....just the same way you have done to others since coming here.

You also need to provide proof in a pickup context....testing in a pickup scenario. The reason for this is that your theoretical knowledge is seemingly not sound or extensive enough for example to know that brass baseplates can affect sound in a pickup scenario. Your theoretical knowledge is also so poor that it cannot accept the wind parameters effect tone.

 

[greekdude]

Re: Questions about open humbucker cover.

Wait wait, eddy currents are certainly not theoretical. What I'm really curious to know is why anyone disagrees with what I have stated. I've asked for specifics, but all you guys are offering is vague aspersions.

Man, you'll have to understand that in this forum exist all types of ppl. There are bedroom players (like me), pro musicians, techs, builders, luthiers, with various levels of education.
For this kind of strictly scientific talk, here is a forum I recommend : http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com .

 

[thanaton]

Re: Questions about open humbucker cover.

We're not saying whether we believe or not, you just need to prove what you're saying.....just the same way you have done to others since coming here.

You also need to provide proof in a pickup context....testing in a pickup scenario. The reason for this is that your theoretical knowledge is seemingly not sound or extensive enough for example to know that brass baseplates can affect sound in a pickup scenario. Your theoretical knowledge is also so poor that it cannot accept the wind parameters effect tone.

These effects do occur, and that's all I'm saying, they're a real thing. Whether you hear a difference or not would require testing. It would also likely depend on the particular pickup, the frequency response of the guitar amp and speakers, and the sensitivity of the player's hearing, so even a test would not be simple to conduct. The lack of some situational data doesn't mean we shouldn't be aware of how things work in general, about how an open top cover compares to a solid cover, or how humbucking blocks one type of noise while shielding blocks another. It's good to be aware.

 

[thanaton]

Re: Questions about open humbucker cover.

Man, you'll have to understand that in this forum exist all types of ppl. There are bedroom players (like me), pro musicians, techs, builders, luthiers, with various levels of education.
For this kind of strictly scientific talk, here is a forum I recommend : http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com .

"Dumb it down" you mean? People ask questions, and it's like if the answer to the question happens to complicated, then you'd rather just not know, I guess. Well, since someone asked, I'll answer, and if you don't like the answer, just ignore it and move on with your life.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Questions about open humbucker cover.

"Fools and savages explain; wise men investigate."

-Sir William Withey Gull

 

[thanaton]

Re: Questions about open humbucker cover.

If the greater scientific community thought that eddy currents did not exist, then proving they do exist would be a worthwhile thing to do. Proving that eddy currents exist to a few incurious guys on a guitar forum, who can't be bothered to read a wikipedia article on the subject, is beyond a waste of time. If you have some reason to doubt they exist, or doubt that they are in issue, explain why you're doubtful, and I can address that.

 

[RogerMexiko]

Re: Questions about open humbucker cover.

If the greater scientific community thought that eddy currents did not exist, then proving they do exist would be a worthwhile thing to do. Proving that eddy currents exist to a few incurious guys on a guitar forum, who can't be bothered to read a wikipedia article on the subject, is beyond a waste of time. If you have some reason to doubt they exist, or doubt that they are in issue, explain why you're doubtful, and I can address that.

You have completely missed the point and been rude as well.
THE POINT IS! DOES THE PARTIAL COVER HAVE A PERCEPTABLE AFFECT ON TONE?

We do not want a lesson in quantum physics.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Questions about open humbucker cover.

If the greater scientific community thought that eddy currents did not exist, then proving they do exist would be a worthwhile thing to do. Proving that eddy currents exist to a few incurious guys on a guitar forum, who can't be bothered to read a wikipedia article on the subject, is beyond a waste of time. If you have some reason to doubt they exist, or doubt that they are in issue, explain why you're doubtful, and I can address that.

The same could be said of your pathetic timewasting efforts here trying to get others to do the same thing.

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Questions about open humbucker cover.

OK, guys, play nice. Kill 'em with smiles, not stooping to their level.

 

[thanaton]

Re: Questions about open humbucker cover.

This has nothing to do with quantum physics, nor does it have anything to do with theoretical physics - it's just basic physics.

Whether it's perceptipble or not is case by case. Eddy currents decrease the Q factor of the pickup, and whether or not that is audible depends on the initial Q factor of the pickup, and how far the Q factor falls as a result of the eddy currents. If the Q factor is already low, it's unlikely that there will be an audible difference. If the initial Q factor is high, then it is more likely you will hear a loss in treble response. It's not just a question of whether or not there is a hole in the top of the cover, but also a question of the material used for the cover, be it brass, nickel silver, or other, as well as the material thickness. You apparently want an easy answer, but there is not one to be had. The next best thing is to understand what is happening, audible or otherwise.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Questions about open humbucker cover.

If the greater scientific community thought that eddy currents did not exist, then proving they do exist would be a worthwhile thing to do. Proving that eddy currents exist to a few incurious guys on a guitar forum, who can't be bothered to read a wikipedia article on the subject, is beyond a waste of time. If you have some reason to doubt they exist, or doubt that they are in issue, explain why you're doubtful, and I can address that.

You decidedly missed the point, and clearly underestimate who you are speaking to. There isn't a question of the existence of eddy currents and this isn't the wider scientific community. This is a guitar forum. There is a question of whether there is a perceptible difference of an open top pickup cover on a humbucker, and now a question of whether your assertion that slots in such a cover would effectively defeat eddy currents, to what degree, and moreover would that have any perceptible auditory impact - all of which you have utterly failed to prove or even demonstrate with any real defensible evidence. Wikipedia is a community-authored resource and no more authoritative than a free-speech forum. The fact that you rely on it and the internet as your primary source of information, claiming them as indisputable fact, and your lack of any demonstrated controlled testing experience, certainly calls into question your knowledge of any subject relating to pickups, instruments, electronics or physics.

Speaking for myself, you can take your condescending insults and self-aggrandizement somewhere else. The 'incurious guys' here who have university degrees and genius IQs do not need your 'dumbed down' explanations plagiarized from the internet and have no use for your patronizing. You've never once truly answered the topic of any thread here in proven useful practical terms. You derail threads with theories you've read on the internet that have scant practical impact on the question at hand. You portray yourself as adding value when you are clearly just here to argue incessantly to appease your own ego. Just take it somewhere else.

 

[thanaton]

Re: Questions about open humbucker cover.

You decidedly missed the point, and clearly underestimate who you are speaking to. There isn't a question of the existence of eddy currents and this isn't the wider scientific community. This is a guitar forum. There is a question of whether there is a perceptible difference of an open top pickup cover on a humbucker, and now a question of whether your assertion that slots in such a cover would effectively defeat eddy currents, to what degree, and moreover would that have any perceptible auditory impact - all of which you have utterly failed to prove or even demonstrate with any real defensible evidence. Wikipedia is a community-authored resource and no more authoritative than a free-speech forum. The fact that you rely on it and the internet as your primary source of information, claiming them as indisputable fact, and your lack of any demonstrated controlled testing experience, certainly calls into question your knowledge of any subject relating to pickups, instruments, electronics or physics.

Speaking for myself, you can take your condescending insults and self-aggrandizement somewhere else. The 'incurious guys' here who have university degrees and genius IQs do not need your 'dumbed down' explanations plagiarized from the internet and have no use for your patronizing. You've never once truly answered the topic of any thread here in proven useful practical terms. You derail threads with theories you've read on the internet that have scant practical impact on the question at hand. You portray yourself as adding value when you are clearly just here to argue incessantly to appease your own ego. Just take it somewhere else.

As I said in the post above, nobody can tell you whether it will or will not be perceptible, because that is dependent upon various factors. It will cause eddy currents, physics says that this is a certainty, and it will decrease the Q factor, that's a certainty, and the Q factor does effect the tone. Do you happen to hear it? It depends.

 

[thanaton]

Re: Questions about open humbucker cover.

So, this is what happens when you have no job/ too much free time...ha...ha...

well it's Sunday.

 

[thanaton]

Re: Questions about open humbucker cover.

Kill 'em with smiles

Like your avatar.