Rack Users and abusers??

[y2stevo]

So whats the deal with rack setups??..

Just browsing the many maunfacturs that do Pres and power amps and they seem pretty interesting (not to mention pricey).

The pre amps themselves seem to be quiet versatile that you can program alot of different tones for different styles ..

Can any current or past users of rack gear comment on them , whats the pros and cons of using as opposed to heads and cabs??

Going rack are you sacrificing power tube overdrive or is there a way around that..
Just keeping options open for future purchases and i dont really understand much about rack stuff..

Really appreciate your insights

Cheers....

y2stevo

 

[some_dude]

Re: Rack Users and abusers??

So whats the deal with rack setups??..

Just browsing the many maunfacturs that do Pres and power amps and they seem pretty interesting (not to mention pricey).

The pre amps themselves seem to be quiet versatile that you can program alot of different tones for different styles ..

Can any current or past users of rack gear comment on them , whats the pros and cons of using as opposed to heads and cabs??

Pros
- Versitility
- Compact (depends)
- Organized
- Load in time

Cons
- Size (not always compact)
- Cost
- Complexity (bigger setups)
- Cost

Racks were originally meant to reproduce studio recordings in a live situation. That way, you could re-amp signals, add effects post power amp and speaker distortion, have the huge variety of studio effects simulated live, ect.

Now-a-days, some people choose rack gear simply for the flexibility and reliability of setup.

Basically, a well designed rack is simple to use for large setups. Someone could have a stereo rig, enough effects to fill 10 giant sized pedalboards, and two or three amps (clean, rhythm, and lead) stuffed into a few boxes that take up just slightly more room than a 4x12 (assuming two racks side by side). You could drop that rack in place, wire up your cabs, guitar, and midi-controller and be setup within minutes.

Imagine trying to wire three separate heads, switching systems, and a huge ass pedalboard before each gig.......and the space that would take up on stage....

Of course, if you're a guitar -> small pedalboard -> amp kinda guy, rack doesn't make much sense.

Going rack are you sacrificing power tube overdrive or is there a way around that..

I sacrifice no such thing. As a matter of fact, I have power tube overdrive in stereo. :headbang:

All a rack amp is is a separate preamp and power amp.

All a head is is the same preamp and power amp stuffed into one box.

Anything a head can do, a rack amp can do. It's not always the same in reverse.

Just keeping options open for future purchases and i dont really understand much about rack stuff..

http://www.hugeracksinc.com/board/

Just lurk, and read.

 

[Hellion]

Re: Rack Users and abusers??

My main system is a rack system. Granted, mine is entirely solid state and digital, but I don't feel like I'm losing anything. I could put a tube power amp in place of the Valvestate that's there now, but once you start processing the signal, it doesn't really matter how you amplify it. Plus, I like the tightness of the Valvestate's bottom end. I use a rack for one main reason and that's of consistency. My homework's been done and I have my patches just the way I like them, however, my ears can change from one night to the next (just like everyone else's) and having the system contained as it is locks in the presets, so I don't have to wonder if it sounds the same. It does. The hall may change, but the signal going to the amp and to the speakers is always consistent.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Rack Users and abusers??

My rack system (all tube) sounds nothing like my guitar heads. What I like about it is that I can mix and match different tones and create your own sound out of it ... for example, if you take an Engl preamp and use a Marhshall power amp, which is what I'm doing, you have a sound that is both and neither. It's fun coming up with different combinations that work well together.

 

[B2D]

Re: Rack Users and abusers??

I only use a TC Electronics G Major and a PowerWerks power conditioner (Furman-knockoff and a good one i might add!) but I might add a Presonus EQ3B for a little extra tonal shaping and tuning. The sound quality of the amp is already really good so a sonic maximizer is kinda unecessary... or is it? I have a boss EH2 enhancer pedal that would probably do the same job

 

[Mincer]

Re: Rack Users and abusers??

I use a rack system with (gasp) no tubes. Not even a power amp...hey, there is *no amp at all!*

I use a Rolang GP-100 preamp, which goes stereo to my mixer (which sits on top of the rack)...this gets mixed with my guitar synth, with the piezo/acoustic output of the guitar, with the bass notes I trigger from my midi footcontroller, and finally the loops I make with my Echoplex Digital Pro. The output gets sent through 1 or 2 JBL full range JBL EONs, with 15's and horns in each. Another output from my mixer goes straight to the PA.

Why go through this? Well, it is very difficult to get a balance between all these sound sources, which need different amplification, without a mixer and a common sound source. I would have to drag out at least 4 amps- 2 of those being full range, 1 being a guitar amp, 1 being a bass amp. I can now set up within 10 minutes.
Yes, lots and lots of programming are needed, but I am insane enough to actually like that sort of thing. And I can make a lot of noise with this setup.
Check out my page below for more info about it all.

 

[Jonny R]

Re: Rack Users and abusers??

My main system is a rack system. Granted, mine is entirely solid state and digital, but I don't feel like I'm losing anything. I could put a tube power amp in place of the Valvestate that's there now, but once you start processing the signal, it doesn't really matter how you amplify it. Plus, I like the tightness of the Valvestate's bottom end.

Not speaking from experience, but I've heard a similar argument made in reverse - basically that Tubes can be put in anywhere in the chain to introduce the signal impurities that we regard as 'warmth'.

 

[Burkwieser]

Re: Rack Users and abusers??

It all depends I think on what you want out of it. My rack is all tube and is the most versitle preamp/amp I have ever used. The modules in the preamp are the key there. As far a effects, really I am just not an effects person. I just like the basics. In my effects loop I run the Alex adding some reverb, to my Intelifex set to dual reverb (mixing the two adds a cool type of reverb/delay to my sound), to my Chandler to make it ring out. From there they go back into my preamp and are warmed by additional tubes that are strickly for the effects loop. Then on to my power amp which I run 6l6 and el34s. The only pedals I use currently are my TS pedal and the midi switch for channel changing. Quite simple and versitle.

 

[msplines]

Re: Rack Users and abusers??

I'm just easing into the rack experience from years of classic tube amp ownership and, yep, LOTSA programming time, backing up and tweaking, but the rewards ARE worth it. Not one for the plug in and go merchants, so if yer just play the blues, don't bother!
Incidentally, I tried several SS power amps (rocktron, yamaha, marshall, etc), but, while they were eminently satisfactory (particularly the mosfet types) , they just don't reproduce the blast you get when you drive tubes in the power stage with ripper patches and chunky cleans (wot?).
I can't afford a VST 2 50 2, so it'll have to wait and I'm currently using the fx loop returns to access the power stages on 2 EL84 combos - sweet as can be.
The effects and preamp must be top notch though, or you get the famous rubbish-in, giant bee in a biscuit tin-out syndrome.
Have fun, but you'll need much more time to play with the setup than you expect, oh, yeah, with all this gear, it's heavy (sic), so don't put everything in the same rack unit or you'll rupture yourself..
Roland GR30
Rocktron Voodu Valve online

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Rack Users and abusers??

A 212 combo, one guitar and a bag to put a couple of cords and maybe a couple of pedals is the easiest way to go but it can be very limiting. Im looking to buy a 112 combo (or finally restore my 1955 Supro) so I can do the open mic/blues thing quickly and cleanly. My big rig is too much work for small, informal gigs.

My rack is all tube and it's heavy. While it is not grab and go, I have it worked out now that everything is on wheels and i can literally push the racks in front of me and pull the speakers and guitars stacked and lashed to a dolly and get in and out of a club in one trip which is very nice. Im also working on a system where I can plug in one gang plug and the speakers to secondary plugs mounted on the back of the rack so my set-up time should be about 30 seconds. I can normally set up in about 5 minutes now which makes me a favorite with the sound guys.

The up side to my rack is major flexability and an endless variety of tones. The down side is that it doesnt fit in an Escort, it weighs alot thanks to the Mesa shock mount racks and the trannys in the 2:90, and it was quite expensive. The ease of use is also not to be forgotten. With the push of one button I can change 12 effects and switch my pre and power amp channels and settings. I can make changes on stage that pedal players can't touch.

The combo/one guitar rig works better on the fly if variety of tone isnt nessessary and its far cheaper. For what I have invested in the rack alone I could buy a combo, pedals, a guitar and a car to move them in.

It really depends on the gig you are playing and your pocketbook. I get so many compliments on my big rigs tone that I could never part with it but a small rig with some teeth would be nice. I can get by with my 2203 and a single 112 cab but some days a Deluxe Reverb and a Tele just looks so tempting.

You only live once, might as well have it all..........

 

[tone4days]

Re: Rack Users and abusers??

i can only add a "+1" to the posts about the benefits of a rack system ... mine is small - one 5u shallow rack ... all solid state ... two 1x12" boogie cabs ... very flexible .. very dependable ... very consistent ... after you finish the homework, it's a breeze to use live ...

to me, the biggest thing to promise yourself is to stop shopping once you find a setup suits you ... there will ALWAYS be a new piece of gear that is 'just a little bit' better than what you have ... you can go broke staying 'state of the art' ... my preamp and effects unit are nearly 10 yrs old ... but they are still quiet and put out tone i love, so no need to shell out extra bucks until (god forbid) one of them dies ... one of those rocktron prophesy or maybe the carvin tone navigator DO look good though

good luck
t4d

 

[y2stevo]

Re: Rack Users and abusers??

What about the 20/20 Power amps?

Would these be really only for recording setups or would they really suit live situations aswell..?

The Marshall 20/20 with EL 84s looks pretty interessting as its only 5 kgs..:laugh2:

 

[Mincer]

Re: Rack Users and abusers??

you can go broke staying 'state of the art' ... my preamp and effects unit are nearly 10 yrs old ... but they are still quiet and put out tone i love,
t4d

My preamp is 9 years old, and still sounds great. I don't use a power amp (actually, it is built into the speakers). Doesn't matter if it is new or old...I am sure guitarists in 1961 were 'stuck' with the 'old' 1959 model LP, and some really wanted to upgrade to the new SG shape.

 

[y2stevo]

Re: Rack Users and abusers??

I just seen a guy selling a marshall 20/20 on ebay and he pictured it iin a nice cosy looking rack with a Pod XT Pro.Any idea how that little thing would sound??

 

[Hellion]

Re: Rack Users and abusers??

My system is archaic. The processor is 15 years old, the compressor is 12, etc. It's still an incredibly versatile unit for what I want with a guitar system. My bass system is rack, too, just a lot more powerful.

 

[Hellion]

Re: Rack Users and abusers??

I just seen a guy selling a marshall 20/20 on ebay and he pictured it iin a nice cosy looking rack with a Pod XT Pro.Any idea how that little thing would sound??

They're great little amps. They're not as brutish as a 50 watter. They saturate a little sooner and push that nice midrange that Marshall tubes have. I think they use EL84s.

 

[crazytooguy]

Mesa 20/20

Mesa 20/20

I have one and definitely recommend it. It's really small (a single rack space) but it puts out a great tone and it's loud enough for everything short of death metal. Even if you end up playing an arena, the cabinet can be mic'd and you get that great tone! I have a really small rack - a Triaxis preamp, the 20/20 power amp, a Lexicon MPX-1 for effects, and a patchbay for rearranging signals. So, my full setup is in a 4U rack, weighs about 25 lbs, and can give me just about any sound I could want. Connected to my 4-10" stereo cabinet, it's only a little bigger than most combo amps, and way more versatile. I used to think racks were for poseur wannabes, but I'm a definite convert now. I've never heard a combo or head-cabinet amp that comes anywhere close to my setup, either for tone quality or for versatility. Oh, and the 20/20 uses EL84s. I upgraded to NOS Tesla EL84s, and it opened up the sound considerably over the stock Mesa Chinese tubes it came with.

 

[y2stevo]

Re: Rack Users and abusers??

Cheers , 25lbs, Thats no more than my DSL50...

 

[lastwinj]

Re: Rack Users and abusers??

I sacrifice no such thing. As a matter of fact, I have power tube overdrive in stereo.

All a rack amp is is a separate preamp and power amp.

All a head is is the same preamp and power amp stuffed into one box.

Anything a head can do, a rack amp can do. It's not always the same in reverse.QUOTE]

there can be a difference in tone, and the noise floor. in an amp head, you have a single power supply chain powering up everything. filtered well, but one chain. in rack setups, you have 2 supplies (power amp supply, and preamp supply) the noise floor can be less in racks, but some times the sound coming out of a head, is due to some power supply fluctuations and interactions, that can be represented in the tone. whether everyone can hear this, is another story. ill take racks. i can change preamps quickly.

germ

 

[lastwinj]

Re: Rack Users and abusers??

but once you start processing the signal, it doesn't really matter how you amplify it.

yes, it does. but it all depends on what sound you are going for. deathmetal tone, and the like, lend themselves to SS power amps. more classic to 80's heavy tones lend themselves more to a tube power amp. you can hear it.

germ