REAL PAF pickups(all parts) vs. Dunc. JB sh-4

[SJ318]

Hi.
This is not a question but a report to you folks that know about these things.
I loaded my complete PAF pickup into my '61 SG R.I. and compared it to my other, almost exact replica guitar with a JB. It was so close it would not have made much diff. same thickness mahog. same weight no maple cap, identical neck mahog.w/rosewood f.b. This is what I heard:
The PAF can't be more than 8 dk and the JB is around 14 dk but to my ears they sounded equally loud. Different, but equally loud.
The JB had way more mids and seemed as if every note or chord was surrounded by an extra blanket made up of mids and something else , some background sound I can't explain.
I used the chords of crossroads and 1 of the solos as an a/b for the test.
JB chords thick, not bad, but the PAF chords sounded like that blanket was removed. I could hear every note in my chords even though the vloume seemed the same. I don't think it was due to output, but I am sure there will be other opinions.
This is where it gets serious. Every note on my JB sounded very compressed playing that solo, muddy too. The PAF was so clear, when I hit a middle note or a high note, it immediatly sounded strong with no "compressed" sound immediately before. I know that is probably due to the output being much stronger ing the JB. But Still.... I tried all of my other guitars. Some had JB jr's, others had a BB1,2, and 3. one had a t-top from the seventies.
I was playing straight to my R.I. Princeton Reverb. It sounded like Mike Bloomfield on super session. Also, I could hear my pick touch and release so clearly. I gotta say, from what I could do and put in words, this is why it is called the Pearly Gates of pickups. The PAF was very clear and sounded much sharper on the high strings: high A on the E string, way up there, they all sound the same-clear, transparent and very sharp, not icepick, but a pleasing "zing" to the sound. This very hard to describe.
If you know me, you know I could and have gone on forever, so I won't
big love
steve buffington
p.s. which duncan or other brand pup sounds the same, I can't put this PAF down!!!!

 

[austin]

Re: REAL PAF pickups(all parts) vs. Dunc. JB sh-4

Basically, you like PAF-type pickups. You'd almost certainly prefer one from any maker over the JB. Get ready for the old guard to say I told you so
-
Austin

 

[austin]

Re: REAL PAF pickups(all parts) vs. Dunc. JB sh-4

Basically, you like PAF-type pickups. You'd almost certainly prefer one from any maker over the JB. Get ready for the old guard to say I told you so
-
Austin

 

[Inkstained]

Re: REAL PAF pickups(all parts) vs. Dunc. JB sh-4

The PAF is lower output. Hence, you can "hear" individual notes in chords better.

The JB was never meant to copy the PAF recipe. Different humbucker, still legendary.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: REAL PAF pickups(all parts) vs. Dunc. JB sh-4

the problem with PAFs is they are inconsistent. They came with different mag types were wound to varying resistances. I'm not even sold on the consistency of the wire they used.

What this adds up to is that today you have dozens of makers who all offer their interpretation of what a good PAF should sound like. There is no one single be all end all PAF sound

 

[dvadneau]

Re: REAL PAF pickups(all parts) vs. Dunc. JB sh-4

Hi.
The JB had way more mids and seemed as if every note or chord was surrounded by an extra blanket made up of mids and something else , some background sound I can't explain.

You just explained it. It's harmonics. The JB has more in the mid range so you get a fuller sound. This works wonders with a different setup, and expectations.

The PAF will sound clearer because there is less amplification of those harmonics the JB gives you - more of just the fundamental. I'm not saying the PAF isn't amplifying harmonics. Different frequencies are amplified/cut.

I don't have a true PAF, so I'm going on the physics of it and what I know about that. Maybe someone that knows how to explain it better can chime in.

p.s. which duncan or other brand pup sounds the same, I can't put this PAF down!!!!

I would have to go with the Seth Lovers, Antiquities, 59, and Pearly Gates. Each of those are wound on the same machine that wound the PAFs for Gibson in the "PAF era". They are each based on a variant of the PAFs.

Plus, the Seth Lovers were built with the guidance of, well, Seth Lover - the guy that invented the humbucker for Gibson. Of course, the problem even with that is, as Seth said himself, the actual assembly wasn't the science it is now. Which is why you get such varied accounts of what a PAF should sound like, as Edgecrusher said.

I'm spouting off what I've read over the years in the forums here, but the Seth Lover pickups are supposed to be like you went back in time and grabbed a PAF off of the assembly line at Gibson. The Antiquities are like you're buying a PAF that's been in a guitar for the past 50 years. The Pearly Gates is based on the PAF pickups from Billy Gibbons' '59 Les Paul (called Pearly Gates). The 59 pickups are yet another variant. Not sure what the base for this design was. The 59 is the only one of the bunch with an Alnico 5 magnet. The rest have Alnico 2. The Antiquity magnets are degaussed to simulate an old pickup that's been through the ringer. The actual degaussing is Seymour's "special sauce".

 

[jimman]

Re: REAL PAF pickups(all parts) vs. Dunc. JB sh-4

You just explained it. It's harmonics. The JB has more in the mid range so you get a fuller sound. This works wonders with a different setup, and expectations.

The PAF will sound clearer because there is less amplification of those harmonics the JB gives you - more of just the fundamental. I'm not saying the PAF isn't amplifying harmonics. Different frequencies are amplified/cut.

I don't have a true PAF, so I'm going on the physics of it and what I know about that. Maybe someone that knows how to explain it better can chime in.



I would have to go with the Seth Lovers, Antiquities, 59, and Pearly Gates. Each of those are wound on the same machine that wound the PAFs for Gibson in the "PAF era". They are each based on a variant of the PAFs.





Plus, the Seth Lovers were built with the guidance of, well, Seth Lover - the guy that invented the humbucker for Gibson. Of course, the problem even with that is, as Seth said himself, the actual assembly wasn't the science it is now. Which is why you get such varied accounts of what a PAF should sound like, as Edgecrusher said.

I'm spouting off what I've read over the years in the forums here, but the Seth Lover pickups are supposed to be like you went back in time and grabbed a PAF off of the assembly line at Gibson. The Antiquities are like you're buying a PAF that's been in a guitar for the past 50 years. The Pearly Gates is based on the PAF pickups from Billy Gibbons' '59 Les Paul (called Pearly Gates). The 59 pickups are yet another variant. Not sure what the base for this design was. The 59 is the only one of the bunch with an Alnico 5 magnet. The rest have Alnico 2. The Antiquity magnets are degaussed to simulate an old pickup that's been through the ringer. The actual degaussing is Seymour's "special sauce".

I thought the 59s were just based off a really good sounding PAF Seymour had found. The story could be more than that but thats just what I have read.

Also, apparently Gibson used Alnico IV in some of the PAFs, so if thats true why dont you see much Alnico IV in PAF style pickups?

 

[freefrog]

Re: REAL PAF pickups(all parts) vs. Dunc. JB sh-4

SJ318, thx for your review.

The PAF is lower output. Hence, you can "hear" individual notes in chords better.

Certainly true. That said and AFAIK, there's some other parms than output when it comes to that PAF clarity: Alloys used for keeper bars, slugs and poles, kind of PE wire, Winding patterns and magnets - to name only a few.

The PAF will sound clearer because there is less amplification of those harmonics the JB gives you - more of just the fundamental.

IME, it's the contrary: that PAF clarity and "zing" are due to a much richer harmonic content than with hotter pickups.

Now, the JB has an inductance 1.5 time higher than a 8k PAF replica. Hence the "added mids". So, I agree when you say that different frequencies are enhanced or cut.

 

[SJ318]

Re: REAL PAF pickups(all parts) vs. Dunc. JB sh-4

Thanks eveyone,
Good explanations from everyone. I guess I must decide which of the pickups are going to be closest to the the one I have.
I have been using the JB bridge on all my instruments. No other pickup has worked for me. Now I am not so fond of my JB's.
If getting a better tone (think Rev. Billy G.) means lower output than I see no trouble just turning my amp from 4 to 7. Although the shape of my sound will change because the amp will be adding more break up, it will be a break up of a very good sound to begin with.
If I understand what was said, my JB just breaks up but still sounds like a JB. So it follows that my PAF sound also will keep it's charm even when pushing and breaking up my amp.
Thanks Again
S. Buffington

 

[SJ318]

Re: REAL PAF pickups(all parts) vs. Dunc. JB sh-4

Hey there,
Just wanted to add important (I think) point. the part about lifting a blanket off my sound- I bought the JB precisely to up the mids because the BB Pro Al V magnet did just that. So when I hooked up my PAF, like you said, that big push of mids did go away.
What I want to add is that after all of your posts it reminded me about the amount of low, mid, and highs being even. The JB did have (looking back) too much of a mid bump. I forgot to tell you the mids, highs, and lows, in the PAF were very even across the board.
I have talked about a good pup should be even like a painters canvas so you could have a nice even sound to then find your own voice with any pedal, no pedal, different speakers,etc................ The PAF does this better than any pickups I've tried.
Thank you again,
Steve

 

[Micha]

Re: REAL PAF pickups(all parts) vs. Dunc. JB sh-4

SJ318: you have to test the Custom 5

 

[richard parker]

Re: REAL PAF pickups(all parts) vs. Dunc. JB sh-4

Also, apparently Gibson used Alnico IV in some of the PAFs, so if thats true why
dont you see much Alnico IV in PAF style pickups?[/QUOTE]

Bare Knuckle 'The Mule' PAF uses Alnico IV. Terrific pup.