Really, is there ANYTHING that can be done about Dimarzio's double creme patent?

Re: Really, is there ANYTHING that can be done about Dimarzio's double creme patent?

Gearjoneser said:
That's what I thought.....Shop Floor Custom with the $10 upcharge of a nickel cover. I'll be honest, I'm too cheap to pay $160 plus tax, plus shipping for a humbucker that's still essentially an employee made pickup. So is that that case? Can we get this for around $90? $160 isn't happening for me, with my budget for pickups.

And is it possible to get an overwound 59B as a Shop Floor Custom? Or is that strictly a Custom Shop job?
Click to expand...

An additional $10 is what I'm remembering for double creme under the cover.

I don't know about custom winds but I'm thinking that's Custom Shop only as it's a deviation from the normal production process.
 
Re: Really, is there ANYTHING that can be done about Dimarzio's double creme patent?

Antique White Humbuckers.
Faded Yellow Humbuckers.

Can't SD just trademark one of the above?


It's not cream, it's just yellower white. :D
 
Re: Really, is there ANYTHING that can be done about Dimarzio's double creme patent?

Grandturk said:
Fact - Dimarzio was known for double cream pickups - Gibson was not, Duncan was not. The double cream humbucker became the symbol of Dimarzio. Dimarzio protected their symbol.

Fact - No one is suffering because of Dimarzio's trademark - theres more pickup companies out there than ever before making gobs and gobs of money. So there's no "unfair competition" or anything like that.

There's no shady business practices going on - just regular business practices.

You don't like the pickup? Don't buy it. For me, I like Dimarzio pickups (as I said before, I like Duncans, EMGs, Fralins, etc, etc, etc). But right now, Dimarzio gets my money.
Click to expand...

How many times are we going to go through this? Sir, it's a color. They did not invent that color. So should the first company to produce green t-shirts trademark that color? And if there is no shady business then why does the company have such an extensive litigation record? I don't see why they don't just use a different shade of cream and call it beige! Ha! I mean there s been so many guitar shape ripoffs, why not?
 
Re: Really, is there ANYTHING that can be done about Dimarzio's double creme patent?

Though you can certainly build a reputation by supplying a particular color to a market, you cannot monopolize that market through commonly-available materials of a given color.

If Ford had trademarked the black automobile and denied anyone else from selling/advertising/mass producing a black automobile, would you call that unfair? Monopolizing a market?

It's one thing to say "I want an Apple iPhone", and Apple being the only company that can manufacture and market a device branded as the "Apple iPhone", but that doesn't stop Blackberry or Verizon or Vrigin from having a device that looks like and performs similar functions to the Apple iPhone.

Same thing here: if DiMarzio is in a position where someone says "I want double-creme humbuckers on my guitar, guess I can only get them readily from DiMarzio's production line", it's because they're monopolizing the market. There are plenty of people who want the color but not on a DiMarzio. DiMarzio need to be mature about it and respect other people's personal choices about pickups and tone and let go of this nonsensical stranglehold.
 
Re: Really, is there ANYTHING that can be done about Dimarzio's double creme patent?

TSE said:
How many times are we going to go through this? Sir, it's a color. They did not invent that color. So should the first company to produce green t-shirts trademark that color? And if there is no shady business then why does the company have such an extensive litigation record? I don't see why they don't just use a different shade of cream and call it beige! Ha! I mean there s been so many guitar shape ripoffs, why not?
Click to expand...

Look, I'm not a lawyer, but its not the color - its the overall representation. Its a humbucking guitar pickup with two cream coils.

And again, I'm not a lawyer, so can you provide evidence of the "extensive litigation record?" As far as I know, most of the time these things are settled with cease and desist letters, not litigation.
 
Re: Really, is there ANYTHING that can be done about Dimarzio's double creme patent?

The argument made to get the trademark was that double creme humbuckers are most associated with DiMarzios. Agree or disagree, it was approved.

Use the same logic, and think about Fender's headstock shape, or EVH's red/black stripes.

Law is not about who is right or wrong, but who has the better lawyer.
 
Re: Really, is there ANYTHING that can be done about Dimarzio's double creme patent?

DrNewcenstein said:
...DiMarzio need to be mature about it and respect other people's personal choices about pickups and tone and let go of this nonsensical stranglehold.
Click to expand...

Hey, you might not like it, but there's nothing nonsensical about them doing something that makes them more money! :D

-Austin
 
Re: Really, is there ANYTHING that can be done about Dimarzio's double creme patent?

The best analogy I've heard anyone use is power tools. Google image the following brand names:

Dewalt Tools
What do you see? Yellow
Milwaukee Tools
What do you see? Red
Makita Tools
What do you see? Light Blue
Now try this:
Dimarzio Pickups
Dimarzio Pickup Colors
Dimarzio
What do you see?
Whether one believes it is fair to associate color with brand, and therefore protect a color/brand association, some people would believe that you'd have to exclusively associate with that color in order for the association to be considered, or continue to be considered valid. Some people could argue that at the time Dimarzio was granted the protection, they had a majority or exclusive association with two cream bobbins. I don't believe anyone can argue that has been the case at any time within the past 20 years.
 
Re: Really, is there ANYTHING that can be done about Dimarzio's double creme patent?

What is funny about colors now, is that since say the late '80's DiMarzio has been known for wild colors more than black or creme.

The situation is what it is, and thankfully there is a workaround for getting double creme Duncans.
 
Re: Really, is there ANYTHING that can be done about Dimarzio's double creme patent?

DrNewcenstein said:
Ah, I was not aware it was merely a trademark - "everyone" kept saying "patent", which I know is substantially different in most cases from a trademark. I thought "they" knew what they were talking about with the patent issue - guess I was wrong and shoulda looked it up myself.

That said, trademarks are perfectly fine - every company has to have one and should protect it. However, if DiMarzio had invented the color, then I could see it as a trademark, but it's a naturally-occurring color based on the combination of certain chemicals and a manufacturing process. As I understand it, no natural occureences can be trademarked or patented for exclusivity - only when you have a specific formula that yields a specific result.

Ergo, if all creme parts made by DiMarzio use the same formula and all come out the same color, all they can lay claim to is that specific shade, which means if Duncan establishes a formula whereby they can make a similar but noticeably different shade when held side by side, they could, in fact, make double-creme production models.

I've got a few ideas on this as far as colors, but there's no way I'd post them here - DiMarzio has spies everywhere :lol:
Click to expand...

Wow. Didn't think this post would explode, lol. Yeah, trademark, patent, whatever. Everyone knows what I mean which is I can't get a double cream Duncan unless I special order it. I may be a simple thing but like you said, how can they trademark a color because it is used on two bobbins instead of one. I also thought about the different shade of creme, lol.
 
Re: Really, is there ANYTHING that can be done about Dimarzio's double creme patent?

the first double whites were PAF's from the summer of 1959 when the factory ran out of black plastic dye ..... folks in the 1960's starting pulling off covers on PAF's and found double blacks most of the time ..... but also a few zebra's and dbl whites

should it not belong to Gibson if anyone
 
Re: Really, is there ANYTHING that can be done about Dimarzio's double creme patent?

White isn't the same colour as creme, though.
 
Re: Really, is there ANYTHING that can be done about Dimarzio's double creme patent?

DrNewcenstein said:
Hmmm. Maybe the Unfair Competition angle is worth checking out? The U.S. has laws that protect against monopolizing a given industry or market.
Click to expand...

They aren't monopolizing anything and it is perfectly legal to build a monopoly in one branch of the industry.

What is not legal is to use a monopoly you have gained in one branch of the industry to get another monopoly elsewhere. You are also not allowed to gang up and create a monopoly by joining your only serious competitor. But it is legal to just plain wipe out the competition with better products at a better price.
 
Re: Really, is there ANYTHING that can be done about Dimarzio's double creme patent?

Grandturk said:
Fact - Dimarzio was known for double cream pickups - Gibson was not, Duncan was not. The double cream humbucker became the symbol of Dimarzio. Dimarzio protected their symbol.
Click to expand...

I would by that if they had done it for pink striped with magenta or some other color scheme they invented.

They picked colors than Gibson has been using before. Gibson humbuckers were randomly black and cream coils.

This trademark would be so dead if somebody would spend the money on a real lawyer. But DiMarzio seems to be the only company in the pickup business that spends a major chunk of their expenses on lawyers in an active role.

For the buyer it is bad because choice has been removed for no good reason.
 
Re: Really, is there ANYTHING that can be done about Dimarzio's double creme patent?

Grandturk said:
Look, I'm not a lawyer, but its not the color - its the overall representation. Its a humbucking guitar pickup with two cream coils.

And again, I'm not a lawyer, so can you provide evidence of the "extensive litigation record?" As far as I know, most of the time these things are settled with cease and desist letters, not litigation.
Click to expand...

Hey, buddy I'm not a lawyer either and maybe I misspoke about the context of "litigation", but if you want court documentation you're going to have to find it yourself. You yourself even said most end in cease and desist, and what about ones that don't end this way, this is the kind of record I meant.

And it's not about revenue, everyone knows the competition makes gobs of money. Ethically speaking, it is a dirty move to "trademark" a color combination on a simple product like a pickup. This way the customer has to pay extra for a custom job because some d bag corporation, or switch and buy the d bag's product with double creme. I would understand if it was a logo or a design or some kind of original creation, but being the first guy to have a specific color anything, give me a break. How about green, or blue, or red? Someone should have patent those! Should Ferrari be "known" for the Ferrari red paint finish and no one else can use it? How about you provide evidence that they don't make millions because of their d bagery! And again, I'm not being critical about their products, tone, or quality, its their ethics I disagree with. Good day to you, sir!
 
Last edited:
Re: Really, is there ANYTHING that can be done about Dimarzio's double creme patent?

I remember when I had my old BC Rich NJ Mockingbird it came with creme mounting rings and double creme bc pickups. It was the classic neck-through series. What's with that?
 
Last edited:
Re: Really, is there ANYTHING that can be done about Dimarzio's double creme patent?

TSE said:
I remember when I had my old BC Rich NJ Mockingbird it came with creme mounting rings and double creme bc pickups. It was the classic neck-through series. What's with that?
Click to expand...

I never understood that either. I had an NJ Classic Mockingbird factory equipped with double cream pickups. "BC Rich" was screened on the bobbins... maybe that has something to do with it. They were not Dimarzio pickups (BC Rich BSDM). At least I hope Dimarzio had nothing to do with them... the pickups were useful only as paperweights.

Personally, if I ever order a Duncan pickup with a loosely soldered cover, I'll ask that the bobbins have "Seymour Duncan" screened on them. That way, in the unlikely event a cover were to, um, fall of, no one would mistake them for Dimarzio. :D I'd only have to worry about the 50+ crowd, though... they'd be the only ones to remember the time when Dimarzio was associated with double cream.


This is fun. I don't think they make a bad product, bad man is it fun to get fired up about their laughable trademarks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top