Reamping: Radial X-Amp vs ProRMP

[Top-L]

I have owned the X-Amp for several years, and have been using it recently. I was having a problem with additional background hiss when reamping with the X-amp (active) with high gain.

So I talked to Radial and they suggested I could try a ProRMP (passive).

I am using the DI in an RME UFX (which is quite good) and the signal is routed through the UFX to the X-Amp then to the amp.

I had a chance to test the ProRMP against the X-amp, and my conclusion is that both are very usable, but the extra price of the X-Amp is worth it.

The X-amp is clearer on top, has more detail and sounds live. The ProRMP, while good, sounds like its being run through a pedal. Both devices provide the same level of gain.

I did a ton of AB testing and could not discern if the ProRMP was any less noisy. The background hiss was virtually identical, so it is likely being added by the DI or amplification somewhere in the RME interface.

Still not 100% happy with the X-amp because of the extra hiss, but it is worth the premium. Someone who never had the X-amp would be completely happy with the ProRMP. You can add some additional presence from your amp, while not exactly the same, its probably a non-issue for most people.

 

[DankStar]

Re: Reamping: Radial X-Amp vs ProRMP

I had a pro rmp for a bit. I didn't like how the reamped sound was different than when I was going straight into the amp. It was a bit noisy too (the whole process seems to lend itself to unwanted noise) - if I turned an OD pedal on it was especially noticeable. I went back to live recording since it ended up being a PITA to mess with (meaning to me, the process of taking 6 to 8 guitar tracks and reamping them all into new files was a pain to me, not a function of the unit itself).

 

[Top-L]

Re: Reamping: Radial X-Amp vs ProRMP

I had a pro rmp for a bit. I didn't like how the reamped sound was different than when I was going straight into the amp. It was a bit noisy too (the whole process seems to lend itself to unwanted noise) - if I turned an OD pedal on it was especially noticeable. I went back to live recording since it ended up being a PITA to mess with.

I think the background noise comes from the computer interface, bringing the gain up to its original level. The signal needs to be amplified so that when run through the reamp box it will have the same gain to the amp. The best way to do this is in the software if possible. The whole chain has the potential to add noise.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Reamping: Radial X-Amp vs ProRMP

I have a Pro RMP and have experienced none of the issues described above.
Nor have I heard a single word of criticism on my recorded tones.

Level matching has to be very carefully calibrated and takes time, but once dialed in is fine.

The new Two Notes unit with the ability to direct compare the DI versus your live tone to get the level correct is a brilliant idea!

 

[Top-L]

Re: Reamping: Radial X-Amp vs ProRMP

I have a Pro RMP and have experienced none of the issues described above.
Not have I heard a single word of criticism on my recorded tones.

Level matching has to be very carefully calibrated and takes time, but once dialed in is fine.

The new Two Notes unit with the ability to direct compare the DI versus your live tone to get the level correct is a brilliant idea!

ProRMP works great, but ABed against the X-amp, there is a loss of detail. Like I said, someone who has never used an X-amp would be completely happy with the ProRMP, but the X-amp is better. Is it $100 better? Sound through the X-amp is bigger and more detailed, best way to describe this is like the difference going direct to an amp, or first going through a pedal with bad input buffer like the SD-1. In the grand scheme of things probably doesn't make much difference, but if you take that attitude everywhere in your chain (converters, cables, etc, etc.) then the end product will suffer.

I wasnt trying to trash the ProRMP and honestly posting comparison clips would be pointless because it would be hard to demonstrate, and then half the people might actually like the darker tone more.

I may decide to keep the ProRMP as I understand you can use it in reverse as a DI. It would be worthwhile to compare that against the DI in my UFX interface.

 

[DankStar]

Re: Reamping: Radial X-Amp vs ProRMP

not sure if that's what I was hearing, but the "darker" description sounds sort like what I was experiencing. To me the tone was less exciting/alive if that makes any sense. the tone was actually not bad, it just didn't sound exactly like me plugging into the amp.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Reamping: Radial X-Amp vs ProRMP

not sure if that's what I was hearing, but the "darker" description sounds sort like what I was experiencing. To me the tone was less exciting/alive if that makes any sense. the tone was actually not bad, it just didn't sound exactly like me plugging into the amp.

And it shouldn't; there's now iron [in the form of a transformer] in your signal path; that will definitely change things! Just like some ppl LOVE pushing iron on the input stages of their mic preamps ... for some things, it's great (particularly bass and drums), for other things ... not so much! How hard you push the iron depends on the level you are using.

I woud venture to guess that it should make a bigger/more noticeable difference in the type of music you are doing -- with high output pickups and lots of saturation on the front end, verses what I am doing w low output pickups and pushing my amps into PI/power stage distortion. I doubt you can hear the reamp transformer being pushed once the power stage of your guitar amp starts red-lining!

I also tend to use a ribbon mic ... which is a whole new set of colourations added yet again. And that's without even going into the discussion of tape saturation, IM distortions introduced from cables in the analogue mixing chain, vintage style compression, etc ...

Makes one wonder if there's even a foundation for the complaint of the DI colouring the tone!

 

[DankStar]

Re: Reamping: Radial X-Amp vs ProRMP

I see - lots of factors to consider!

 

[Top-L]

Re: Reamping: Radial X-Amp vs ProRMP

not sure if that's what I was hearing, but the "darker" description sounds sort like what I was experiencing. To me the tone was less exciting/alive if that makes any sense. the tone was actually not bad, it just didn't sound exactly like me plugging into the amp.

Exactly.

 

[Top-L]

Re: Reamping: Radial X-Amp vs ProRMP

And it shouldn't; there's now iron [in the form of a transformer] in your signal path; that will definitely change things! Just like some ppl LOVE pushing iron on the input stages of their mic preamps ... for some things, it's great (particularly bass and drums), for other things ... not so much! How hard you push the iron depends on the level you are using.

I woud venture to guess that it should make a bigger/more noticeable difference in the type of music you are doing -- with high output pickups and lots of saturation on the front end, verses what I am doing w low output pickups and pushing my amps into PI/power stage distortion. I doubt you can hear the reamp transformer being pushed once the power stage of your guitar amp starts red-lining!

I also tend to use a ribbon mic ... which is a whole new set of colourations added yet again. And that's without even going into the discussion of tape saturation, IM distortions introduced from cables in the analogue mixing chain, vintage style compression, etc ...

Makes one wonder if there's even a foundation for the complaint of the DI colouring the tone!

All my testing is with sm57 on cab, and through monitors.

The difference, IMO, is when you are recording the first pass, you are sending the signal through to your amp and it sounds/feels exactly the same as if you were plugging directly. This is more inspirational and feels better. Takes through the ProRMP sound a bit choked and not as live.

Also, while we are talking about high end detail and top end, I found it has more of an effect on allowing the lower notes to stand out and not be muddy. Low notes have harmonics and high end component that allows them to stand out and be defined. That is what is missing with the ProRMP.

You can add presence from your amp or eq to get the "tone" correct, but without the detail, there is still going to be mid frequency mud with the ProRPM. Its not bad, but there is a reason they made the X-amp and charge twice as much.

The ProRMP is good but not great. I was hoping the ProRMP was going to be as good.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Reamping: Radial X-Amp vs ProRMP

How hot is the signal coming from your DAW/interface? You do realize that you should be looking for something between -20 and -12dbU, MAX, coming out of your interface, right?

 

[Top-L]

Re: Reamping: Radial X-Amp vs ProRMP

How hot is the signal coming from your DAW/interface? You do realize that you should be looking for something between -20 and -12dbU, MAX, coming out of your interface, right?

It is set so the level is the same into my amp as the original guitar signal. I dont think the average is above -12db, but it is dynamic so transients may be above that. Gain on the reamp box(s) is on full.

I don't see why you have a hard time believing a $200 unit is better than a $100 one from the same manufacturer. I was just posting this as a PSA, another data point for anyone trying to make a decision. I saw the four box comparison and I dont think someone will hear the difference in mp3 files as much as they will hear/feel it live tracking with the amp. You can definitely hear and feel a difference while tracking.

Hopefully this does not diminish your enjoyment of the ProRMP. It may not have any impact on your setup.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Reamping: Radial X-Amp vs ProRMP

I am not having a problem at all, and it doesn't diminish my enjoyment at all, either. I have never stated either thing, please don't put words into my mouth.