Recession is over, judging by new catalog

[Philcguitars]

Re: Recession is over, judging by new catalog

Mattpete, transport costs are not up, they are way down. Fuel costs are way down, surcharges have went away, the fright market is very weak. Carriers are moving stuff for CHEAP just to move stuff!

I'm sorry to hear that. I know you're in the biz Stateside. I wish I had a Stateside fuel bill too, and you wouldn't want my insurance premiums etc.

 

[Philcguitars]

Re: Recession is over, judging by new catalog

It might be because those graphs are denominated in dollars (as are Gibson's supplies).

Well, you just convert it, to local currency. I'm used to working in different currencies. We also generally pay Pounds for Dollars in the UK. It's an age old sales trend here. At present that's expensive!

The problem more likely is that these are ORE rates.

It's the price of delivered plate, bar and extrusion that I was talking about - Useable product.

In Europe Processing plants are facing new legislation because of global warming. That means they have to clean up waste to high standards and clean their emissions. And, as I said already Transport has got very expensive in the UK. Mostly through the Government raising duty and Road Tax to stupid levels, supposedly to protect the environment, and I could go on but I won't!

If I buy and manufacture an Aluminium product in South Africa, there is a Government Incentive/Grant for my supplier, but then I have to pay Duty on the import.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for a good environment, but the whole World has to play the same tune!

As for 'Real Ale' in the USA, there are some really good ones from small and micro breweries. Did You know that it was a Brit that started the US Real Ale campaign?

 

[MattPete]

Re: Recession is over, judging by new catalog

Mattpete, transport costs are not up, they are way down. Fuel costs are way down, surcharges have went away, the fright market is very weak. Carriers are moving stuff for CHEAP just to move stuff!

Theodie: That's what i said. I think you got me mixed up with the poster I was replying too.

Last summer it cost me over $4 a gallon to fill my car. My wife sold her 10-year-old Honda Civic for a premium to a Mercedes owner that was trying to save money on his long commutes from Sterling to Tyson's corner.

Now gas is a hair under $2.

Deflationary spiral? Maybe. I hope so. But helicopter Ben does not.

 

[MattPete]

Re: Recession is over, judging by new catalog

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for a good environment, but the whole World has to play the same tune!

I remember back in the 80s when a bunch of us from highschool were exchange students in West Germany. We were touring a power plant somewhere in the Rhineland. The German engineer was really proud of the new scrubbers they had put on their powerplant, as it had recently become known that parts of the Black Forest were dying off due to acid rain.

Then one of the American exchange students said: "We did that years ago in America, that's why our trees aren't dying."

Silence.


[I don't know if it is true or not -- scrubbers in America -- but it was funny at the time]

 

[Philcguitars]

Re: Recession is over, judging by new catalog

I remember back in the 80s when a bunch of us from highschool were exchange students in West Germany. We were touring a power plant somewhere in the Rhineland. The German engineer was really proud of the new scrubbers they had put on their powerplant, as it had recently become known that parts of the Black Forest were dying off due to acid rain.

Then one of the American exchange students said: "We did that years ago in America, that's why our trees aren't dying."

Silence.

[I don't know if it is true or not -- scrubbers in America -- but it was funny at the time]

Hmmm. Might have happened somewhere, at an experimental plant - Maybe!

Of course the likelihood of finding scrubbers in a Power plant in say San Paolo or say Jiangsu Province are probably a non-starter!

 

[uOpt]

Re: Recession is over, judging by new catalog

The 1980s acid rain in Germany was industrial exhausts and has actually been fixed long ago. There's no way that a nuclear plant could have contributed to it.

The major reason why German was affected more is that the population density in post-WW2 West Germany is so insanely high, and German society is of course heavily industrialized. Before 1990 a large part of the acid rain in West Germany was actually caused by East German poison blowing over (along with dirty rivers etc).

 

[dystrust]

Re: Recession is over, judging by new catalog

The 1980s acid rain in Germany was industrial exhausts and has actually been fixed long ago. There's no way that a nuclear plant could have contributed to it.

He's probably talking about the scrubbers installed in coal power plants to reduce sulfur dioxide emissions.

Now what exactly was this thread about again???

 

[MattPete]

Re: Recession is over, judging by new catalog

Yeah, it was a coal plant. I remember they moved a village to get at the coal, using some sort of monsterous earth mover.

Maybe this:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/krupps/worlds-largest-digger-digs-potentially-destroys-world-215801.php

 

[Philcguitars]

Re: Recession is over, judging by new catalog

He's probably talking about the scrubbers installed in coal power plants to reduce sulfur dioxide emissions.

Now what exactly was this thread about again???

I believe the question was...

Why are the Equipment makers raising their prices, and why do they think it's a good idea?

I think that was the jist!

 

[flieger67]

Re: Recession is over, judging by new catalog

I don't think you should blame AMS entirely on those prices. In the case of Fender, they just took a significant price increase within the past month or so. My local Fender dealer placed a large order just days before the price increase because they could see what the new FMIC pricing would likely do to the shop's sales numbers.

But then again, for those of us old-timers, perhaps we can recall that big price increase that Kramer took that essentially killed them in short order. Maybe FMIC should be wary of history's lessons.

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Recession is over, judging by new catalog

I'm with a lot of you who have decided that used gear is the way to go right now. There are legitimate price increases out there, because of the economy, and then there are companies expecting us to take one in the rear because they have hit a hard time and don't want to do the logical thing and scale their business back.

I had been thinking about getting another American Deluxe strat since my old one has a lot of milage on it. The price just jumped up 500.00 in a month , and my salary has not. Thats an insane price increase.

I think every company in America has become too bloated, trying to be jacks of all trades. If they would let smaller secondary companies take care of the specialty items, and stick with what they are famous for, then when a recession hit, the secondary companies might bite the dust but the main business wouldn't be stretched so thin it could not survive. Making a good living never seems to be enough for us, though. Enough is never enough.

 

[Philcguitars]

Re: Recession is over, judging by new catalog

I'm with a lot of you who have decided that used gear is the way to go right now. There are legitimate price increases out there, because of the economy, and then there are companies expecting us to take one in the rear because they have hit a hard time and don't want to do the logical thing and scale their business back.

I had been thinking about getting another American Deluxe strat since my old one has a lot of milage on it. The price just jumped up 500.00 in a month , and my salary has not. Thats an insane price increase.

I think every company in America has become too bloated, trying to be jacks of all trades. If they would let smaller secondary companies take care of the specialty items, and stick with what they are famous for, then when a recession hit, the secondary companies might bite the dust but the main business wouldn't be stretched so thin it could not survive. Making a good living never seems to be enough for us, though. Enough is never enough.

Some good points there!

 

[shaka]

Re: Recession is over, judging by new catalog

Raising prices will only do to the guitar market what rising prices did to the housing market. For example:

My brother bought a nice little starter for 120k about ten years ago. Just before the bubble burst that same house was going for 230k which prices it far out of the realm of those who are in the market for a starter home. That same house today is going for.........130k. Yes sanity is starting to return to the housing industry.

Gibson and Fender are going to see demand dry up as they raise their prices. Musicians may still buy some product (although that market will shrink as well) but a key demographic, the yuppie, will cease to buy because he is in trouble along with everyone else. These days when the yuppie wants to learn how to play he will buy a Mexican Strat instead of throwing down 3k for a lester.

 

[theboatcandream]

Re: Recession is over, judging by new catalog

Raising prices will only do to the guitar market what rising prices did to the housing market. For example:

My brother bought a nice little starter for 120k about ten years ago. Just before the bubble burst that same house was going for 230k which prices it far out of the realm of those who are in the market for a starter home. That same house today is going for.........130k. Yes sanity is starting to return to the housing industry.

Gibson and Fender are going to see demand dry up as they raise their prices. Musicians may still buy some product (although that market will shrink as well) but a key demographic, the yuppie, will cease to buy because he is in trouble along with everyone else. These days when the yuppie wants to learn how to play he will buy a Mexican Strat instead of throwing down 3k for a lester.

On the other side of it though, raising prices of the MIA guitars will help sell import brands like Epiphone and Squire, and if you buy an Epiphone you're somewhat likely to buy a Gibson down the road anyway as an upgrade.

I also think a lot of people will continue to buy Gibsons as an act of escapism and as a status symbol. By being more expensive, they're just a bigger status symbol. And there are a lot of people out there right now who are in denial over what kind of lifestyle they should be living in money terms.

 

[Laughing Kookaburra]

Re: Recession is over, judging by new catalog

A Warmoth or a Carvin kit are looking really good right now...

 

[Philcguitars]

Re: Recession is over, judging by new catalog

On the other side of it though, raising prices of the MIA guitars will help sell import brands like Epiphone and Squire, and if you buy an Epiphone you're somewhat likely to buy a Gibson down the road anyway as an upgrade.

I also think a lot of people will continue to buy Gibsons as an act of escapism and as a status symbol. By being more expensive, they're just a bigger status symbol. And there are a lot of people out there right now who are in denial over what kind of lifestyle they should be living in money terms.

To the 1st - It won't help the deficit balance!

To the 2nd - I think the new policy is 'Status Symbol' hence all the special 'Centres' around the World in major cities. You know the thinking the 'Harley' of the Guitar World.

 

[theodie]

Re: Recession is over, judging by new catalog

I don't like Labatt or Molson to be honest (except for Rickard's Red and creemore which are both made by Molson). Sleeman is alright, especially Sleeman Honey Brown. Alexander Keith is a good one too. Wellington Imperial Stout is my favourite Canadian beer though, even though I only had it once and then wasn't able to find it again.

Huh, never heard of either, I will keep my eyes open.

 

[theodie]

Re: Recession is over, judging by new catalog

I'm sorry to hear that. I know you're in the biz Stateside.

No big deal to me, I am not affected at all actually.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Recession is over, judging by new catalog

Raising prices will only do to the guitar market what rising prices did to the housing market...Gibson and Fender are going to see demand dry up as they raise their prices. Musicians may still buy some product (although that market will shrink as well) but a key demographic, the yuppie, will cease to buy because he is in trouble along with everyone else.

+1. The upscale yuppies are flocking to WalMart. The days of buying "status" guitars just to show off, is coming to an end for a while. It will return, but we're in for a long, hard stretch before then. The used market will grow, as people try to scrape up cash, and a lot of buyers are nervous about putting money into expensive new guitars. Look at the huge price deflation in the stock & housing markets; guitars are not immune. Denial gets you just so far.