Rectifier Rant

[El Dunco]

I’ve been thinking about this for some time and figured I would keep quiet because it’s probably stupid and nobody cares but it seems to be “common knowledge” that you can’t play any variety of modern metal genres on a dual rectifier without a boost, overdrive or eq in front and in my experience, that’s just not true.

I wouldn’t care if people were saying “I prefer to use a boost” or maybe recommend it for genres that didn’t exist when it was made to accomodate for 8+ strings, but they’re telling people “can’t.” Are you kidding me?

Why would I buy an amp worth several thousand dollars if it can’t sound how I want without a $50-$100 box in front of it? The way I have it set up and the way I play, it’s definitely not a requisite and with modern voiced or active pickups? Fuggedaboudit!

Not to mention if I want as simple a setup as possible, if I have a pedal in front on stage, now I need either need to hit 2 pedals (including channel switch) to get my clean sound or some kind of loop system with a channel switch out or a 4CM device which I don’t want to bother with. When recording, I don’t like what messing with the front end does to the sound. It takes away too much of what I like about it, it loses string to string definiton on anything but power chords. For me, it sounds best plugged straight in, dialled in correctly. Bam. That’s the sound.

If it couldn’t do the job without extra gear, I would just get a different amp. Point is, if you like to boost it, that’s fine. If you personally find it preferable, fine but it’s just not true that you “can’t” do X without a Y in front so enough of that.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Yeah, true. They're good amps, regardless.

Curious, what style of music do you play through Rectos?

I do find that for my needs, I need a boost in front of one. But that's just my personal preference. The fact that a boost actually transforms it so much makes it a much more versatile gain sound. You can use a variety of boosts that cut different amounts of low-end to achieve different sounds (Klon-type, 808-type, SD-1-type, TCIP-type), but you can also leave it unboosted and be totally happy. Depends on what you're tyring to play through one.

It also depends on the type of Recto too. Some of the 3-channels are much looser than say, a 2-channel Rev C. Or a Badlander.

 

[El Dunco]

Industrial thrash. We tune as low as B (7 string) sometimes. Mine is a 2 channel model, I don’t know how much that has to do with it. It’s not a black front but it sounds very similar to Rammstein’s Reise Reise sound straight in how I set it. It chugs, it growls and it sure does cut.

 

[Demanic]

Industrial thrash. We tune as low as B (7 string) sometimes. Mine is a 2 channel model, I don’t know how much that has to do with it. It’s not a black front but it sounds very similar to Rammstein’s Reise Reise sound straight in how I set it. It chugs, it growls and it sure does cut.

As low as B on a 7 string? Why not A?

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[Top-L]

Industrial thrash. We tune as low as B (7 string) sometimes. Mine is a 2 channel model, I don’t know how much that has to do with it. It’s not a black front but it sounds very similar to Rammstein’s Reise Reise sound straight in how I set it. It chugs, it growls and it sure does cut.

Downtuned guitars have thicker strings and put out more voltage. Of course you don't need a boost.

Also probably not playing leads.

With light gauge strings and standard tuning, and for someone who plays lead guitar, recto *needs* a boost.

 

[El Dunco]

As low as B on a 7 string? Why not A?

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Maybe soon. I have some new songs that sound good in A. Means bringing more guitars to shows though, or retuning between songs. We normally play in standard, DGCFAD and BEADGBE, I have one written for F#EADGBE (basically 8 string missing the B) with a 7 string using a bass string and a widened nut slo-

WaitAMinute! How DARE you question my tuning choices! Why I Oughtta! (Shakes fist) I’m bringing back “WhyIOughta” it’s threatening but lazy due to absolutely lack of specifics.

 

[El Dunco]

Downtuned guitars have thicker strings and put out more voltage. Of course you don't need a boost.

Also probably not playing leads.

With light gauge strings and standard tuning, and for someone who plays lead guitar, recto *needs* a boost.

LOL

We most definitely are playing leads. If anything standard would need a boost even less because there’s less low frequencies to trim before the gain stages. Most of our songs are in standard. I use .09s.

Ironically that’s the last thing the common knowledge I’m talking about covers. I’m talking almost strictly metal rhythm guitar.

 

[Top-L]

LOL

We most definitely are playing leads. If anything standard would need a boost even less because there’s less low frequencies to trim before the gain stages. Most of our songs are in standard. I use .09s.

Ironically that’s the last thing the common knowledge I’m talking about covers. I’m talking almost strictly metal rhythm guitar.

I didn't like the DR when I tried it, but also I didn't understand it at the time.

Use what works.

I have an Ironheart which has one less gain stage than something like a 5150. It *can* work without a boost, but for leads I prefer the extra saturation I get from a little extra drive from the SD-1. For everything else I want the SD-1 off and its actually why I like the amp. If it had that extra cascaded gain stage, it wouldn't be so open and clear.

Boosting leads using a SD-1 or TS was an 80s thing, where everyone was playing in standard tuning. On youtube it seems like many modern metal players are using the boost "always on".

Its all personal preference, but if I was playing a DR, I would *need* a boost. You aren't getting Vai/Satriani style tones from a DR without a boost.

 

[El Dunco]

I didn't like the DR when I tried it, but also I didn't understand it at the time.

Use what works.

I have an Ironheart which has one less gain stage than something like a 5150. It *can* work without a boost, but for leads I prefer the extra saturation I get from a little extra drive from the SD-1. For everything else I want the SD-1 off and its actually why I like the amp. If it had that extra cascaded gain stage, it wouldn't be so open and clear.

Boosting leads using a SD-1 or TS was an 80s thing, where everyone was playing in standard tuning. On youtube it seems like many modern metal players are using the boost "always on".

Its all personal preference, but if I was playing a DR, I would *need* a boost. You aren't getting Vai/Satriani style tones from a DR without a boost.

Of course. That’s pretty much the central point. Do what you want, what works. If you’re not pretending to be an authority on how you’re supposed to use amps and won’t just let people figure out what works for them, you’re most certainly not even remotely part of what I’m having a go at.

I’m not in a great mood or I probably wouldn’t have made the thread in the first place. I’ve got an interview tomorrow on a show, it’s a big deal, I have to be up early, it’s already midnight and I CAN’T FKN SLEEP.

I think I’m just going to have to have some valium and hope I pass out.

 

[dave74]

It's less about tuning and more about tension IMO. Looser strings have more perceived gain. Tighter strings need more boost/amp gain to have an equal level of perceived gain.

The old 2-channels have a slightly "easier to play" type of saturation to me, albeit less fizz-gain in the uppers. They just feel smoother and a bit more compressed in a good way.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Well, if you're going for a Rammstein tone, you certainly don't need a boost. But Rammstein don't play all that fast or technical. So I'd be curioust to hear how that works for thrash.

Also, boosts in front of Rectos are not about gain levels. They've never been. It's about cutting the low-end to make the tone tighter.

How tight we want our Rectos to sound depends on personal taste. I like an SD-1 myself because it cuts more low-end than a TS808. I, however, hate a Fortin 33/Grind/TC Integrated Preamp with the Meshuggah settings type boost because I feel it cuts too much low-end and makes it sound too tight for my taste. Plenty of people are fine with the 808-type boost, which isn't as tight as the SD-1, so it's all about personal taste.

I actually find the thicker the strings, the looser/more woofy they get. I feel lighter strings sound tighter/more lively. You just gotta watch how you hit them so that they're not super pitchy. I use a 56 myself on my low C. I'd go lighter if I could, but I try to find a happy medium between good-sounding and good-feeling.

But it's all about taste. I mean, Cannibal Corpse used what? Metal Zones to boost their Rectos?

 

[LLL]

Just slap a Bad Monkey in front of any amp and call it day.

 

[dave74]

Well, if you're going for a Rammstein tone, you certainly don't need a boost. But Rammstein don't play all that fast or technical. So I'd be curioust to hear how that works for thrash.

Also, boosts in front of Rectos are not about gain levels. They've never been. It's about cutting the low-end to make the tone tighter.

How tight we want our Rectos to sound depends on personal taste. I like an SD-1 myself because it cuts more low-end than a TS808. I, however, hate a Fortin 33/Grind/TC Integrated Preamp with the Meshuggah settings type boost because I feel it cuts too much low-end and makes it sound too tight for my taste. Plenty of people are fine with the 808-type boost, which isn't as tight as the SD-1, so it's all about personal taste.

I actually find the thicker the strings, the looser/more woofy they get. I feel lighter strings sound tighter/more lively. You just gotta watch how you hit them so that they're not super pitchy. I use a 56 myself on my low C. I'd go lighter if I could, but I try to find a happy medium between good-sounding and good-feeling.

But it's all about taste. I mean, Cannibal Corpse used what? Metal Zones to boost their Rectos?

I think their modded Metal Zones are basically castrated of their gain stages, so they are more of a clean-boost+para-EQ.

 

[Securb]

I mean, Cannibal Corpse used what? Metal Zones to boost their Rectos?

If you have a good ear you can dial in almost anything to sound good/great.

 

[dave74]

Very true. I think even a stock Metal Zone makes a nice boost for a recto's vintage-gain/orange mode, while the HM-3 hyper-metal is even better but without the para-band.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I think their modded Metal Zones are basically castrated of their gain stages, so they are more of a clean-boost+para-EQ.

The Metal Zone never gets clean at all. Not unlike a Tube Screamer, except even less clean, LOL. I don't know how they set the level, though. But a Metal Zone does not have all that much output level to begin with, IME. But yeah, the EQ functions and power certainly makes them work as boosts.

I think they're using something else now. Like Maxon something. Some variant of a Tube Screamer.

*EDIT* Ohhhh, but they're modded? Didn't know that.

 

[Demanic]

Interesting. People discussing Metalzones without disparaging them.

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[Top-L]

It's less about tuning and more about tension IMO. Looser strings have more perceived gain. Tighter strings need more boost/amp gain to have an equal level of perceived gain.

Its about the gauge of string. A larger string moving through the magnetic field creates more voltage. In the same way that moving the pickup closer to the string does. Or a thick wound bass string does.

Lower tunings typically have thicker strings to maintain a certain level of tension.

If the tuning feels "loose" it is a side effect of string gauge and tension. A downtuned guitar with thick strings may still feel "loose" but can create more output.

 

[dave74]

Its about the gauge of string. A larger string moving through the magnetic field creates more voltage. In the same way that moving the pickup closer to the string does. Or a thick wound bass string does.

Lower tunings typically have thicker strings to maintain a certain level of tension.

If the tuning feels "loose" it is a side effect of string gauge and tension. A downtuned guitar with thick strings may still feel "loose" but can create more output.

Perceived gain does not equal output. Looser strings have a more relaxed spongy feel. They allow for more movement as in a larger vibration-loop, which is also a factor in output voltage.

I agree larger and tighter strings are louder and have more actual output, but tighter tension creates a punchier less "even" response.

Compare a set of 42s with a set of 52, both at E standard,,,,,and I guarantee the 42s will "feel" like your amp is more saturated.
The 52s will be loud and punchier, but feel "stiff" to play by comparison. The amp will feel less saturated than with the 42s and you will turn it's gain up to compensate.

 

[Demanic]

Its about the gauge of string. A larger string moving through the magnetic field creates more voltage. In the same way that moving the pickup closer to the string does. Or a thick wound bass string does.

Lower tunings typically have thicker strings to maintain a certain level of tension.

If the tuning feels "loose" it is a side effect of string gauge and tension. A downtuned guitar with thick strings may still feel "loose" but can create more output.

It also has to do with the string composition. Some materials react more strongly to magnetic fields. I used to use EB Cobalts and they punched above their gauge.

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