Relic Question

Sordid Tales

Sordid Tales

New member
Alright, after getting the phone call from a former customer saying that he's not comfortable with anyone else restoring the 25 dollar all original 61 Les Paul/SG, I set out doing some more heavy research.

Here's a list of all the parts that we have (all original, for the most part)

Pickups and pickup mounting rings
All electronics
TOM bridge and tailpiece (TOM is original. Guitar originally had a Maestro vibrato, converted to stoptail by first owner)
strap buttons
case and case candy

The guitar was completely stripped and primered white by the original owner. I stripped the body (using 220 grit sandpaper) to the bare wood so that it can be refinished it it's original Cherry.

Now here's my question. All these parts are seriously aged, as are the repro tuners we bought. There's countless articles about relic'ing a strat or tele, but what about a Gibson style? I don't know how to do this one properly, and the current owner, while not wanting a heavy relic, doesn't want the finish to look pristine and out of contrast to the original parts.

The guitar is going to need some serious work, and will take some time to complete, but I'm sure we'll both be happy with the results.

Who's got some opinions?
 
Re: Relic Question

What often works well when it HAS to look a bit beaten but not too much is to skip the grain filler and not sand until the final clearcoats are starting to go on...this preserves the dips and dings in the wood while allowing the rest to be buffed to however muich shine you want.

Unfortunately if the body doesn´t have any noticable dings then this won´t work very well.... But I can post pics of my rhoads soon, I did exactly what I described becasue I wanted to keep the dings and heavy buckle rash but still have the guitar look pretty spiffy and have a near mirror finish for the most part ;)
 
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Re: Relic Question

It's got a few dings here and there, but nothing like an aftermarket relic. I'd say it has maybe 3 or 4 total. I was planning on perhaps making the finish looks somewhat similar to the Faded series of SG's that Gibson's putting out, but minus that waxy feeling.
 
Re: Relic Question

^^ yep, one of the easiest ways to make a finish look a bit more worn is to stop halfway through buffing (or leave it out completely which IIRC gibson does w/ the fadeds) ;)
 
Re: Relic Question

I´ll take pics of my Rhoads when the sun comes out again and you can decide for yourself whether this approach has merit in your case, she also has obvious playwear in a few spots on the HW ;)
 
Re: Relic Question

see if you can find anything from RS GUitar works online or on the gear page. Ive seen some really sick LP relics from them
 
Re: Relic Question

after doing a bit more research, it seems that several (not all, but quite a few) of the older SG's finished in Cherry turned to an almost brown color. I guess that was Gibson's thinking behind the "Worn Brown" finish on the faded series. I checked out RS' forums and website, and while they seem to do pretty good work, nothing there stated on how to get a good looking aged finish.

Now I've reliced a few guitars in my day, but they've all been Fender style, so I'm kinda stumped when it comes to Gibsons. I know how Fenders age, I know their wear patterns, etc. I dunno about Gibsons.
 
Re: Relic Question

Pics of what an unfilled body looks like when no sanding is done until final clearcoats start going on... This is my beater and I wanted it to stay that way ;)

DSCF0862.jpg

DSCF0863.jpg

DSCF0864.jpg

DSCF0865.jpg


the trick is that you also need to speed up the finishing process a hair, so that the color coats randomly chip ever so slightly when sanding. you also want to keep teh color coats thin and not do too many topcoats. I have a total of 2 clear, 2 color, 2 clear on the guitar except the neck which I purposely left raw. The whole thing kept most of the buckle rash and only the smaller dings were completely covered. I could have buffed it to a high gloss, but that would have been kind of against the point of a beater ;)

TBH I just wanted to play her ASAP again, she`d been hanging around for 2 years w/ binding, frets, hardware and paint... so I figured "It´s my beater anyway" and intentionally rushed the job a bit, so as to not destroy the last 20 years of playwear and make her look brand new ;)

I´ll see if I can´t wake up a hair earlier tomorrow and take pics in the sun, the flash obscures the work a bit...
 
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Re: Relic Question

I do see what you're getting at though. Here's what I've got in my mind (keep in mind, the only relics I've done are on finished bodies).

Go lightly on the filler
2 coats of cherry color
2 coats of clear on the body
1 coat of clear on the neck

go easy on the polishing and sanding. That's the only thing I can think of.
 
Re: Relic Question

two things I forgot to mention. First, I love the Zerb "Z" on the headstock, and second that natural binding is awesome.
 
Re: Relic Question

For the record, this is the look I'm going for with this project, minus the Bigsby. I really think that with the aged original hardware, this would be the best fit.

1961-LesPaul-SG-b.jpg
 
Re: Relic Question

beandip said:
two things I forgot to mention. First, I love the Zerb "Z" on the headstock, and second that natural binding is awesome.
Click to expand...

Thanks, those are the 2 things that really make her mine, she originally started life in ´89 as a Fernandes that somebody had already butchered with a really sucky Kerry King style paintjob (that red /Black/Silver crackle jobbie he had on his ESP King Vs, just really crappily executed). Only paid 150 bucks for her without trem and PUs :cool:

The Z was actually just a funky Idea I got with a silver paint pen in my hand that turned out to be better than I thought. :laugh2:

The natural bevels she already had in her last incarnation, I just really liked the look ;)

The way whe was after the first rebuild about 10 years ago, this was what was left of the original finish. The trem is a late 90s Schaller w/o brass inserts that I had lying around (and it still works perfectly, no stripped holes on the intonation screws because I´m not a gorilla), the locking nut, tuners, and holddown bar are original to the guitar. The neck PU I´ve always had in there is a vintage Gibson Dirty Fingers modded to 4 wire for a split (thats what the 2 minitoggles are for). Originally I dropped my first Dimebucker in her, master volume and 2 tones:
FernandesRhoads.jpg

Last known photo 5 years and 1 refinish later... finish was never clearcoated or buffed becasue I somehow lost focus of the project, the bevels are natural with a primer stripe between them and the black (they were an afterthought some 6 months after teh spraying). The PATB-2 is also already there.
DSCF0273.jpg


^^ about 2 years after this pic, I got the idea to strip her totally and do flame maple bevels, binding and inlays. never happened, but I did tear off the binding and remove the frets.... she hung here in front of my face stripped to the bone (only thing I never took out was tee trem claw) for about 3 years. And a month ago I was bored, had a wee bit of cash that I thought I wouldn´t miss (think again, numbnuts :laugh2: ), and figured I´d at least make her playable again. Then I got to thinking about what I liked and didn´t like, and ended up bringing a few cheap to implement but cool ideas to the table, like keeping the natural bevels and some of the wear while refinning, but not hiding her age. And replacing the light board for something a bit more classy.

And once again for comparison and because I´m stoked that she turned out much better than expected considering my total lack of a decent workspace (I mentioned that I didn´t like the refretting room in that vietnamese shop a few days back? Well, admittedly, clamping the guitar to a chair isn`t that much better :laugh2::beerchug: ):
DSCF0862.jpg


And ironically, she´s sounded better each time I´ve rebuilt her.... but this time she plays like a dream, too, thanks to the new frets and rebuilt neck. I put on a really dark rosewood board I had salvaged from another guitar a few years back, profiled it down from the 1 3/4" nut it originally had, and completed it with new jumbo frets and binding. The frets were actually the last bit of wire I had handy, not superwide jumbo but fairly tall. The inlays are actually original to the guitar, they just look a bit darker because I ran a coat of Fiebing`s over the board just before final buffing ;)

Tonally?...Well, still carries a vintage Gibson Dirty Fingers at the neck and a PATB-2 Distortion Trembucker at the bridge, the PUs are wired out of phase to each other (purposefully of course) , set up for individual splits with master vol, 2 tones and 3 way. Over my rig with my standard amp settings the neck is stoner rock and doom metal nirvana, the middle sound is pure, unadulterated 80s metal with harmonics flying off the fretboard left and right, and the bridge is "instant moshpit, just add long hair".

Finally, after all these years, there is nothing at all meek or unmetal about her anymore :headbang:

And the split tones are pretty cool, too, but I usually only use them clean.
 
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Re: Relic Question

Sordid Tales said:
Alright, after getting the phone call from a former customer saying that he's not comfortable with anyone else restoring the 25 dollar all original 61 Les Paul/SG, I set out doing some more heavy research.
Click to expand...

Seriously? A steal if there ever was one, even without the original paint.

Zerberus, that's a really nice Rhoads - the natural bevels look great. I've always wondered what the fret access is like on these guitars, as it seems somewhat compromised.
 
Re: Relic Question

Yeah, seriously. He's apparently a huge salvage junkie, and was at a storage unit sale or garage sale or something like that. He wound up buying 4 guitars that day, and the last one was the LP. While on his way to his car to put the three guitars away, he spotted an old beat to hell case. He asked the lady who was selling it what it was and she stated "Just some old hunk of wood. If you want it, it's yours for 25". He bought it, got it home and opened up the case. His jaw hit the floor when he found an "all white" SG. He was thinking 70's maybe, but after I went over it real well (and found the remnants of the sanded off S/N which I had to use rubbing paper to get) we've concluded that it's a 61. Too many things point to it being one to think otherwise.
 
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