Removing a finish

[MikeS]

Re: Removing a finish

My Ibanez had a bullet proof poly on it that no paint stripper would remove. A palm sander would definatly be helpful, but I used a belt sander (and no, they don't cost anywhere near 30g, try $100) for what I could and used a palm sander for teh rest (the palm sander is a finishing sander; the belt sander is typically a little more aggressive). for the areas that neither of those sanders would reach, I put a drum sander attachment on my drill. I didn't have to do much hand sanding in the end.

You could do the entire thing with a palm sander just fine, and it'd save you a few days. Just be prepared to take frequent breaks to allow the blood to come back to your hand.

 

[jmh151]

Re: Removing a finish

I refinished my Gibson Les Paul Custom years back. It was white but the nitro turned a pink color in spots. In addition, I sanded under the pickguard, only to find I had a AAAA Flame Maple top underneath!

Anyway, I refinished boats, yacts and furniture for years. I used Zip Strip paint remover on as much of the guitar as possible, but stayed away from the binding. Be very careful. After that, I used a 1/4 sheet palm hand sander to sand the remaining laquer off. Do not touch the face of the hearstock as all, there is a black fiber under the laquer that will melt. In the hard to reach spots, life the cutaway, I sanded by hand. First use 80 grit paper just to getthe laquer off. Once the finish is off, use 100, then 150, then 220, then wet sand the wood with 240 and 320 grit.

For finishing the guitar, I used special dies and marine polyurethane varnish to give it an antique amber color, as I loved the amber color on Paul Reed Smith's first signature series guitar. The Amber from the varnish also made the white binding and pearl on the headstock appear aged. I sanded in between coats to make sure the finish was thin. However, I noticed that the tone of the guitar appeared muffled or deadened for quite a while, months, if not a year, until the varnish completely cured and hardened. In hindsight I would have used nitro laquer from spray cans and tinted it.

 

[Thames]

Re: Removing a finish

I refinished my Gibson Les Paul Custom years back. It was white but the nitro turned a pink color in spots. In addition, I sanded under the pickguard, only to find I had a AAAA Flame Maple top underneath!

Wow... they were hiding that ???

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Removing a finish

Zombie thred for sure...a new thread might have been your best bet.

Anyway...if you are really unhappy with the tone of the guitar and it's relly missing that much high end then no amount of finish removal is gonna help...

 

[theboatcandream]

Re: Removing a finish

Attack of the zombie thread!

I've been playing my Epiphone Les Paul Custom and thinking that it sounds like it has a wet blanket draped over it. I'm considering removing the finish from the entire back of the guitar and rounding off the corners on the back. The idea is to get a smoother feeling, better playing neck, a more resonant body with more complex tone, and a more comfortable fit to my own body when I play it.

Has anyone tried this sort of thing on an Epi LP or Custom?

Yup. The guitars became more resonant, brighter with more upper mids and a slightly different character to the sound. More natural sounding all around.

 

[Andrew Lamprecht]

Re: Removing a finish

You're probably right, but I'm curious about doing the experiment. One guitar, before and after; the amount of poly is the only difference. I can't imagine that it would make it worse, though the resale value would evaporate. (Who cares? It's an Epiphone.)

I saw someone online a few days ago remove the finish from the back of an Epi G400. They said it made it more resonant and the tone improved by a decent amount but not enough to destroy the resale value.

 

[beandip]

Re: Removing a finish

Even something better than that:

Remove poly, respray with nitro. Increase resale value, add tonal improvements, and go with a nice aged color hard to replicate with poly.

 

[Andrew Lamprecht]

Re: Removing a finish

Even something better than that:

Remove poly, respray with nitro. Increase resale value, add tonal improvements, and go with a nice aged color hard to replicate with poly.

I agree!

 

[Jessie Sammler]

Re: Removing a finish

Reposted from "Sorry Guys":

Bit by bit, the poly is coming off the back of the Epi LP Custom. It looks like there's a mahogany veneer across the whole back, stained a nice reddish brown. It was black under poly. Can't wait to see what the neck looks like. Already, when I hold the guitar just the right way and pluck a string, I can hear the back singing like my Faded V -- which has the same kind of veneer.

This is going to be cool.

Update:

Finish on the back of the Epi LP Custom is coming off pretty quickly. I'm surprised at how much weight the guitar has lost. It's starting to get neck-heavy, actually, so I'm taking the finish off all the way to the end of the headstock. Strings and tuners are off now.

Should I take it down to bare wood and restain it? The back has a veneer on it that makes it look like a solid piece of mahogany, but it also seems like there's more finish on it before I get to the stain.

Is there an oil finish I can do that wouldn't require spraying?

Should I do the sides? Top?

 

[beandip]

Re: Removing a finish

If you're going to remove the poly, remove the poly. What you're running into on the back is you're through the layer of clear, and now hitting the layer of tinted polyester. Don't just skimp out and do the back, go all the way.

As for worrying about stain, I'd remove all traces of finish, apply a mahogany stain available at any hardware store, and build up a true oil finish afterward. Very light and resonant, and if you've got the time, you can build up a finish that's thick enough to get a sheen to it.

 

[Jessie Sammler]

Re: Removing a finish

Thanks, Bean. This is going to be cool. (Yay! I get to gut my Custom!)

What kind of oil finish product should I use?

 

[beandip]

Re: Removing a finish

Thanks, Bean. This is going to be cool. (Yay! I get to gut my Custom!)

What kind of oil finish product should I use?

http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/TruOil.htm

The cheapest I've found it is 2.99 a bottle at a local gun shop. Winds up being about 10 bucks to refinish a guitar.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: Removing a finish

^^ Birchwood-Casey Tru-oil seems to have become the industry standard for oil finishes. IIRC it´s a polymerized tung oil /Linseed oil mix as opposed to a "straight" tung oil one, meaning it takes a few coats less and builds up a bit of a harder finish than pure tung, which is IMO advantageous.

You should be able to find it at a gun shop if local home improvement merchants don´t have it, as it´s been used for finishing gunstocks for forever and a day

*edit* nice tutorial they`ve got there on LMI, hadn´t seen that one yet...

 

[Thames]

Re: Removing a finish

Id really like to see some pix of that barewood epi....

 

[beandip]

Re: Removing a finish

^^ Birchwood-Casey Tru-oil seems to have become the industry standard for oil finishes. IIRC it´s a polymerized tung oil /Linseed oil mix as opposed to a "straight" tung oil one, meaning it takes a few coats less and builds up a bit of a harder finish than pure tung, which is IMO advantageous.

You should be able to find it at a gun shop if local home improvement merchants don´t have it, as it´s been used for finishing gunstocks for forever and a day

*edit* nice tutorial they`ve got there on LMI, hadn´t seen that one yet...

It really has become the industry standard, hasn't it? Now that I think about it, every time someone wanted an oil finish it was Tru Oil. Interesting. LMI's really picked up their game since the company Dan Erlewine works for started with the newsletter, offering free advice over the phone, and the occasional seminar.

BTW, I'm only going to say this once more. Get your ass back here to the states.

 

[Jessie Sammler]

Re: Removing a finish

Id really like to see some pix of that barewood epi....

You got it. Be forewarned that the things I do usually come out looking kind of ghetto, because I don't have a lot of patience, and I'm not too concerned about the looks of guitars that I know I'm never going to sell.

That said, this one's a flametop, and I've only done the back so far. Who knows what I'll find? So far there's a scarf joint that I kind of expected.

 

[Jessie Sammler]

Re: Removing a finish

I've used True Oil on a neck before, and it was a harder, thicker finish than I expected. It coats pretty quickly and might be more than I want on this guitar. This project is inspired by the faded Gibsons, like my worn cherry Flying V. The finish on the back of the neck is so thin that I can see and feel the grain. Is that nitro?

 

[beandip]

Re: Removing a finish

I've used True Oil on a neck before, and it was a harder, thicker finish than I expected. It coats pretty quickly and might be more than I want on this guitar. This project is inspired by the faded Gibsons, like my worn cherry Flying V. The finish on the back of the neck is so thin that I can see and feel the grain. Is that nitro?

Yes, it's a modern form of nitro sprayed in a few layers without a pore filler. You can achieve the same result using tru oil by not using a grain or pore filler. I personally prefer that feel to a completely solid finish. Like what comes on the lower end Martins and Taylors.

If you're going for the look of a Faded series guitar, skipping the filler will give you that "open grain" look and feel. Not only that, but you'll also save time and money on filler.

I suppose it's a win/win for you.

 

[Jessie Sammler]

Re: Removing a finish

Yes, it's a modern form of nitro sprayed in a few layers without a pore filler. You can achieve the same result using tru oil by not using a grain or pore filler. I personally prefer that feel to a completely solid finish. Like what comes on the lower end Martins and Taylors.

If you're going for the look of a Faded series guitar, skipping the filler will give you that "open grain" look and feel. Not only that, but you'll also save time and money on filler.

I suppose it's a win/win for you.

Yep, sometimes my laziness dovetails nicely into what I want to accomplish.

Thanks a million, guys!

 

[theboatcandream]

Re: Removing a finish

Reposted from "Sorry Guys":

Bit by bit, the poly is coming off the back of the Epi LP Custom. It looks like there's a mahogany veneer across the whole back, stained a nice reddish brown. It was black under poly. Can't wait to see what the neck looks like. Already, when I hold the guitar just the right way and pluck a string, I can hear the back singing like my Faded V -- which has the same kind of veneer.

This is going to be cool.

Update:

Finish on the back of the Epi LP Custom is coming off pretty quickly. I'm surprised at how much weight the guitar has lost. It's starting to get neck-heavy, actually, so I'm taking the finish off all the way to the end of the headstock. Strings and tuners are off now.

Should I take it down to bare wood and restain it? The back has a veneer on it that makes it look like a solid piece of mahogany, but it also seems like there's more finish on it before I get to the stain.

Is there an oil finish I can do that wouldn't require spraying?

Should I do the sides? Top?

The wood itself won't be stained. Rather, there will be some colour mixed in with the wood sealer. On Epiphones, that layer of finish doesn't seep into the wood very deep and will actually chip off to reveal blonde coloured wood.