Replace BB King Lucille Epiphone Pickups

[TheGate]

Hi,

I'm new to the forum today, but have read alot of posts in the past and they're all very helpful. I have a question about pickups. Last year (2010) I bought a BB King Lucille Epiphone (Chinese-made):

1 - factory 500k pots, silver-cloth wrapped wiring
2 - 2 factory 57CH(G) DOT pickups
3 - maple neck, rosewood fretboard
4 - maple body
5 - I had vari-tone control removed (pickups are soldered to the pots)

The Epiphone pickups are not bad, I've adjusted the pickup heights and the pole pieces and am reasonably satisfied. However when running the guitar directly into my amp (Roland CUBE 60) even after eqing: In the neck position, the bass is a bit muddy/unclear and in the bridge position, all of the strings sound a bit weak.

I play blues, jazz, rock, r&b, folk, ballads, etc. When gigging I run through a 10-pedal pedal board containing: a Vox EX floor effects unit, BOSS blues driver BD-2, Digitech Lexicon Stereo Reverb RV-7, TC-Helicon G-XT Harmony, Digitech Jamman Looper, BOSS FDR-1 (Fender 65 Deluxe Reverb amp pedal), plus a few others. I don't take an amp to gigs, and either go through the house guitar amp or the PA.

I also tune the guitar down 2 whole steps to a standard C tuning, which would be the same as a standard E tuning, just 2 whole steps lower. I use 56-13 guage strings. When playing in standard E, I capo at fret 4 (yet, the bass strings are still sound muddy).

My question is: I'd like to replace the pickups to cure the muddy bass in the neck position and weak sound in the bridge position. I've been doing alot of research on the net, and it seems the Alnico 2 (Seymour Duncan Alnico II Pro) will give a rounder sound emphasing the mids, whereas the Alnico 5 (Seymour Duncan SH-1 59) will emphasize the bass and highs and from what i've also read appear to have higher output than the Alnico 2. What does the forum think about suitable pickups for the BB King Lucille Epiphone?

Thank you!

 

[AlexR]

Re: Replace BB King Lucille Epiphone Pickups

Welcome!!

I have had a similar experience to yours, in wanting to upgrade the pickups and electronics on an Epiphone semihollow (mine is a dot).

I'd heard great things about the '59's, so went ahead and got 2 put in with all new pots and wiring. Initially it was ok, but as I got used to the new sound I realised that the bridge position was thin, and the neck muddy. This is where the beauty of magnet swapping came to the fore. By putting an A2 in the bridge, and an A3 in the neck pickup I was able to cure the problem without the fuss of rewiring (a real PITA with an f-hole semihollow).

Judging by my own experiences and your tuning preferences I would advise bright-ish humbuckers with good bite and no overwhelming bass.

In short, I feel the Pearly Gates set would be ideal. They have a good cutting upper mids peak which should help to offset the low tuning + the construction which tends to push the lower to true mids.

You might also have success with the Seth Lover or Antiquities sets too.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Replace BB King Lucille Epiphone Pickups

+1. The PG should work well in your guitar.

I'm also an advocate of the Screamin Demon. Very even tonal response, clear and articulate, not muddy at all, warmer tone than a typical PAF like the '59 but without the bass boominess and shrill high end.

The A2P would also be a good choice if you want warm sound, but the bass will be a bit looser than either the PG or the Demon.

If you want more output than any of these will give in the bridge, a simple magnet swap will work wonders.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Replace BB King Lucille Epiphone Pickups

Any two of Duncan's PAF's would be fine: '59, PG, or Seth. I think they have better definition and tone than Gibson's PAF's. Stock Epi HB's are buried in wax and sound blurred and muddy.

 

[TheGate]

Re: Replace BB King Lucille Epiphone Pickups

Thank you for your expert opinions...It makes sense that a brighter pick-up would be a better choice for this guitar, as the guitar does have an overall dark tone to it. I would not have thought of the Pearly Gates as an option, but it does make sense. I'll keep all this information in mind as I ponder it further.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Replace BB King Lucille Epiphone Pickups

Been there, done that. https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=203463&highlight=Epiphone+Lucille

I left the Vari-Tone PCB in, initially for the simple reason that it was easier to solder my chosen pickups to the board than trying to reach the pots with tweezers and my soldring iron. Much to my surprise, the VT has proven to be extremely useful - especially for recording rhythm guitar parts. The filtering effects help parts sit in a mix without detracting from the lead instrument or voice.

My choice of pickups was Pearly Gates (neck/Rhythm) and Brobucker (bridge/Treble).

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

 

[TheGate]

Re: Replace BB King Lucille Epiphone Pickups

That's interesting about leaving the Vari-tone in the body to facilitate easier soldering of pick-ups, and also for recording - it does give alot more tonal options. I took out the Vari-tone because I didn't want to have an electronic chip early in my signal chain, also because the resulting volume level for every Vari-tone setting is different, it made it a little awkward to use live. After removing it, the overall tone of the guitar was bigger and cleaner. It's good to get feedback on how people setup their Lucille, really does help one find a better direction, which isn't easy

I really like the design of the Lucille, closed body so it wont feedback, but still semi-hollow. Sometimes we do "unplugged" type gigs sitting on chairs, the Lucille's large body makes it very easy to transition from standing to sitting, sort of like an acoustic guitar would be leaning against one's body.

I'd really like to hear your Lucille with the Pearly Gates in the neck. Do you have any clean-rhythm (uneffected) recordings I could listen to?

 

[DustyCat]

Re: Replace BB King Lucille Epiphone Pickups

Www.stellartone.com

I cannot verify for it personally, but it seems to me that what it claims to do is something that could help you in this situation in addition to some of the suggestions these helpful members have suggested.

-DC

 

[LatsMcGee]

Re: Replace BB King Lucille Epiphone Pickups

If Clarity under low tunings is your biggest issue I would opt for the JAZZ over the 59 or the PG.

 

[TheGate]

Re: Replace BB King Lucille Epiphone Pickups

The stellartone is a very interesting component and probably does do what they claim, in that it's similar to an effects pedal. For example, if I run the Lucille through the Boss Fender '65 Deluxe Reverb Amp pedal, the tone changes dramatically, much clearer. In the search for a natural clean guitar tone, something like the stellartone knob might be a good choice, as it seems to compensate for pickup/guitar shortcomings that everyone seems to encounter, and would be an integral part of the guitar, unlike a pedal.

I read something that said play your electric guitar unplugged and the tone that you hear will be the resulting basic amplified tone. Then, it's from this tone that one gets to find pickups suitable for the guitar's original unplugged tone. In the case of the Lucille, a standard tuning or a lowered tuning, bass tones are pretty much the same - muddy. It's to be expected with a guitar coming out of a high-output factory, or maybe just to be expected

Seems the key, as the forum has suggested is to go with brighter pickups...Invaluable information...

When I get a chance I'll call the Seymour Duncan hot-line and see what they have to say and post their thoughts.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Replace BB King Lucille Epiphone Pickups

I read something that said play your electric guitar unplugged and the tone that you hear will be the resulting basic amplified tone. Then, it's from this tone that one gets to find pickups suitable for the guitar's original unplugged tone.

Absolutely not true. We've had many posts here about different the acoustic and amplified sounds can be. Even guitars that sound identical unplugged can be very different with PU's, even the same PU's. Some great-sounding unplugged guitars can sound like crap thru an amp, and vice versa. Human ears can't hear much of the wood's natural tones, and when you amplify it, things can come out that you didn't hear before. The sound signal runs thru PU's, wires, pots, cable(s), amp, tubes, & speaker. Every part of that modifies the tone to some degree. Some parts of the EQ are accentuated, some are reduced, potentially by everything along the way. The final sound is a product of all the variables; wood is only one of them. Don't let self-proclaimed experts tell you otherwise. No one plays an electric guitar unplugged on stage; all that matters is the amplified sound.

 

[TheGate]

Re: Replace BB King Lucille Epiphone Pickups

The final sound is a product of all the variables; wood is only one of them. Don't let self-proclaimed experts tell you otherwise. No one plays an electric guitar unplugged on stage; all that matters is the amplified sound.

Yes, blueman335, your thoughts are very well taken. I've read many of your posts here and always learn alot from them. Sincere thanks...

 

[TheGate]

Re: Replace BB King Lucille Epiphone Pickups

This is Seymour Duncan's reply to my original post regarding BB King Lucille Epiphone pick-up replacement:

For your neck pickup I'd definitely go with our SH-2 Jazz. It will be perfect for you, especially since on your guitar it seems like your wound strings can get a little muddy.

In the bridge I would listen to some sound samples online of the SH-11 Custom Custom or the SH-14 Custom 5. The Custom Custom uses Alnico 2 magnets which are very smooth and bluesy. The Custom 5 is a little bit brighter but very clear and is a little bit more vintage sounding than the Custom Custom.

Keep in mind that we do have a 21 day real world exchange policy if you live in the U.S. If you buy a Seymour Duncan new from a dealer and find out it's not for you, give us a ring and we can have you send it back to try something else.


Best regards,

Scott Marceau
Customer Service / Tech Support
Seymour Duncan
5427 Hollister Ave, Santa Barbara, CA 93111-2345
805-964-9610
www.seymourduncan.com

 

[hamerfan]

Re: Replace BB King Lucille Epiphone Pickups

3 thoughts from me: I have the wealth of 20+ pickups in boxes and about the same number in guitars. I never ended up at least with the same combo i swapped in first. Its a prozess to find the best bet.
I always tossed out all original harness in cheap or midpriced guitars. These suckers use the cheapest avaliable bulk material the can get. It a real downer when you break your cheap output jack onstage or your toggle switch crap out.
Dont give up in the first stage on the original pickups. I have a nice pair of Epi pickups with a A3 in the neck and a RCUOA5 in the bridge. Be sure to toss the covers!
So i would say renew the harness (there a nice kits on the market like from jonesyblues.com) and modify the pickups.

 

[bagouser]

Re: Replace BB King Lucille Epiphone Pickups

Try a Pearly Gates set or maybe a PG bridge and a Jazz neck.
The A2P is another maybe.

 

[TheGate]

Re: Replace BB King Lucille Epiphone Pickups

hamerfan, bagouser, thank you for your posts!

I bought a Biyang 8 band EQ, put it right after the guitar and before all of my other effects. The EQ cleared up the bass muddiness and also let's me dial in a better tone on the mids and highs as well as giving a 15db volume boost. It gives a clean tone with no noise.

Now, because of the EQ, I can keep the tone knobs on the Lucille set to around 4 or 5 which gives a nice balanced tone. If I want more treble I now have play from 5 to 10. The bridge pickup also sounds fuller and stronger because of the db boost provided by the EQ.

It's a good temporary solution for me since I always play through an effects board and go into a Roland CUBE 60 solid-state amp or a PA. Switching pickups is still a desire, and maybe one day will try the Pearl Gates or Jazz, but now because of the EQ, not as urgent a desire.

I appreciate the forum's input!

 

[david kornblatt]

Re: Replace BB King Lucille Epiphone Pickups

Welcome!!

I have had a similar experience to yours, in wanting to upgrade the pickups and electronics on an Epiphone semihollow (mine is a dot).

I'd heard great things about the '59's, so went ahead and got 2 put in with all new pots and wiring. Initially it was ok, but as I got used to the new sound I realised that the bridge position was thin, and the neck muddy. This is where the beauty of magnet swapping came to the fore. By putting an A2 in the bridge, and an A3 in the neck pickup I was able to cure the problem without the fuss of rewiring (a real PITA with an f-hole semihollow).

Judging by my own experiences and your tuning preferences I would advise bright-ish humbuckers with good bite and no overwhelming bass.

In short, I feel the Pearly Gates set would be ideal. They have a good cutting upper mids peak which should help to offset the low tuning + the construction which tends to push the lower to true mids.

You might also have success with the Seth Lover or Antiquities sets too.

i don't know if you guys know it yet; but the Lucille come with an open back. That's a no no for a regular 335. This is what makes it special IMHO. So if he wants to he can go whole hog and get the jimmy page humbuckers and wiring diagram and get every tone out of the beast, plus if he gets a real varitone switch he can have more different choices of sound...the possibilities are endless!