Replacement Pup's

[barry]

Hi guys, 1st post so i'll try to explain (as best i can), what i'm after.

I recently got hold of a Vintage (thats the name of the guitar), V8BRQ. I locked off the tremolo unit, because after 2 days of trying to float it, i gave up :smack: Anyway, the reason i got it was the overall wood construction:

Solid Basswood body with Maple cap.
Maple neck with a flat Rosewood fretboard (24 frets).
2 Humbuckers.

After setting up the guitar to my 28 years of abusing the Sabre style, i find it pretty comfortable to play. I would like to swap out the pickups, they ring very well playing clean, but under distortion, any string higher than the 2nd (3rd, 4th etc.), becomes progressively muddy and wooly.

I've tried loads of tonal variations on both my Combo's and GT3, but still no joy. I checked inside the wiring cavity and there's no rough wiring at all. It all looks quite professional, clean and tidy.

I know, cheap guitar cheap sound, but playing clean, this guitar is really nice, and i knew that i would be changing the pup's sooner or later.

My usual vice is Gary Moore, Uncle Joe (S), Vai, Santana (you get the drift)? My old Sabre handles these quite well, but it's time to rest the old girl and use something else.

So, any ideas on which pickups i could use, I'll even change the pots and caps if required.

Regards Barry

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Replacement Pup's

Hey Barry, welcome to the Forum!

It definitely sounds like you want to stay in the vintage-medium output pup range. Basswood can sound pretty different from cut to cut, but usually is a pretty warm sounding wood. I'd recommend something a set of Pearly Gates, or 59s.

If you want a bit more beef in the bridge slot then I'd look at the Custom series.

Finally if you want the poles to line up perfectly pick up a trembucker version instead of a regular version.

Hope that helps!

Luke

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Replacement Pup's

Here's my generic pup breakdown:

The 59---The 59 is the quintessential A5 PAF (patent applied for) pup. Imagine getting in a time machine and going back to 1959 and swiping a brand new A5 pup from the Gibson factory in Kalamazoo and bringing it forward to today. They have found most homes in many neck slots. It has symetrical coils and lots of quack. It has thumping bass, a scooped mid, and cutting highs. Vintage 2 Conductor Wire

The Seth Lover---This pup is as true to the original as can be. This pup is unpotted and comes standard with a gold, or nickel pup cover. It has an A2 magnet and has good quack and fair mids. For this pup imagine going back in time to 1955 and grabbing one of the very first PAF's before they debuted in the LP's. This pup is warm and creamy, but can also get bright with the tone knob on 10. Vintage 2 Conductor Wire

The Alnico 2 Pro---The warmest of the Duncan PAF line. It has symetrical coils and is a modern take on the A2 PAFs. It has round bass and smooth treble, it also has lots of mids to make the guitar really sing. It will warm up the coldest or shrillest of guitars. The most well known Alnico 2 Pro user is Slash of Velvet Revolver and GNR. Standard 4 Conductor Wire

Pearly Gates---The PG is the hottest of the Duncan PAF line. It has asymetrical (mismatched) coils and an A2 magnet. The mismatched coils give this particular pup its rude personality. It has a frequency push in the Presence/Cut knob frequency band. This is the "Sizzle" PG owner talk about. It has the most mids of the Ducan PAF line and is also the hottest. Its patron is Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top. Standard 4 conductor Wire

The Jazz---The jazz is the pup that bridges the gap between Vintage and Modern pups. Its output is at or around the vintage level. Don't let the name fool you this pup is very versatile and smooth. It has an A5 magnet and is very widely used in the neck slot. It is articulate regardless of the tuning as well. This pup negociates cleans or overdrive very well. Standard 4 Conductor Wire

The Custom Series---The Custom Series is all on pup configuration but with different magnets. The coils are symmetrical and the pups come with Standard 4 Conductor wire

Custom---The Custom is a PAF kicked up a few notches. This pup gets its aggressive edge from its Ceramic magnet. This pup has lots of grind with good treble and midrange. It also has ample bass for palm mute playing.

Custom Custom---The Custom Custom is a midrange heavy pup that lends itself to leads and warming bright guitars. This pup gets its huge midrange from the Alnico 2 magnet. I has smooth bass and treble. Essentially it is an overwound A2 PAF.

Custom 5---The Custom 5 is a pup with an EQ very identical to The 59. It has thumping bass, scooped mids, and cutting treble. Like the 59 it is a bright pup that will liven up dark guitar, but the bass can be overwhelming in a bassy guitar, or the the treble overwhelming in a trebly guitar.

JB---The JB is in a class of its own. There is really no other pup like it. It has fair bass and lots of treble. This particular pup has a large upper mids spike that allow it to cut through the mix like no other. It can be heard on countless recording especially throughout the 80's. Lots of people like to pair it with a Jazz or 59 in the neck. In bright guitars it is usually soldered to a 250k pot just like the original Seymour made 30 years ago.

 

[barry]

Re: Replacement Pup's

Thank you for the warm welcome and the suggestions :smokin: The last time i dabbled with pup's was getting a Dimarzio SD when they first came out way back in the day (well, mine anyway). I tossed it into a CMI Gold Top copy that John Birch (the man himself), had done previous work to. It certainly fooled a lot of guys ( nope, i never did tell them :27: ). I did think of trying that in the Vintage, but then thought i would start from a blank sheet with a matching pair.

Thanks again.

Regards Barry

 

[barry]

Re: Replacement Pup's

Back again :fingersx: As my guitar has a LFR tremolo system would i need both neck and bridge trembucker pickups, or only the bridge to acount for the string spacing.

Regards Barry

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Replacement Pup's

Back again :fingersx: As my guitar has a LFR tremolo system would i need both neck and bridge trembucker pickups, or only the bridge to acount for the string spacing.

Regards Barry

Just the bridge pup, the neck should be fine.

If you want more output then definitely look at the those last pups I listed.

Luke

 

[barry]

Re: Replacement Pup's

Before i start saving for new ones, i'll ask a few q's on my originals if i may.

After a great deal of combo adjustment, i found the original pup's are quite bassy even with full volume and tone on the guitar. I started by flattening out the combo's controls and tried 'Bright', 'Normal' and 'Input1' channels, but these pup's require a lot of treble.

The volume when turned down to approx 2, shuts off the sound totally, and the tone control when turned down, not only decreases what treble there exists in the pup's, but also reduces the volume somewhat.

There appears to be 500K pots installed (i don't know if linear or audio taper), and the cap on the tone pot is 0.47.

Is there any way of 'brightening up' the pup's with different value pots and/or caps?

Regards Barry

 

[Gunny47]

Re: Replacement Pup's

I would usually reccomend the Pearly Gates Neck with either a Pearly Gates bridge or a Custom Custom bridge, but for a basswood body (and you said that you had a problem with muddy tone), I'd go for something brighter. The Seth Lovers and the Alnico II Pros are on the warmer side, so I'd go against those. I like the '59 in the neck if I had to choose between that and the Jazz (59 has that vintage PAF esq tone that is just perfect for any humbucker guitar) and the best bridge pickup to become a pair with the '59 would be the Custom 5. So my recomendation would be to get the '59 in the neck paired up with the Custom 5 in the bridge. Good luck...

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Replacement Pup's

Barry, it sounds to me as if you guitar could use some new pots too. Whenever a taper is that far out of wack on the volume, and the tone control kills volume you've got problems. New CTS pots are about 5 bucks each. For the be all end all pots check out the RS guitarworks kits/pots, but they are 15 bucks a piece.

Luke

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Replacement Pup's

HI Barry
I don't know if it's a typo or correct, but you say your tone cap is 0.47. Hopefully that should actually read 0.047 in your last post....but if it is a 0.47, change it before you go any further. Sorry if i'm picking on a simple typo error, but the weirdest things do happen, and often sneak under the radar....

 

[barry]

Re: Replacement Pup's

I checked the cap number and it's 2A473J. It's probably a typo om my part trying to look clever :blackeye:

Regards Barry

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Replacement Pup's

Hi Barry
OK...the 473 in that number means the cap is 0.047, which would be correct, so that eliminates that from the equation. Had it been 0.47, that would certainly have caused some problems and that's why I queried that detail.
I'll leave it to others better qualified than myself to make pickup suggestions....and this forum has plenty of knowledgeable folk who will be able to help you in that area.

 

[barry]

Re: Replacement Pup's

Thank you for your input. I guess thats what comes of me trying to be smarter than my wife :laugh2:

Regards Barry

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Replacement Pup's

Oh I larfed and larfed Barry from that last post, ....then i re-read your first post and you are obviously no slouch in the brain cell department, so all hail to you and the even smarter mrs Barry....

 

[barry]

Re: Replacement Pup's

Hehe. More developments of this Vintage (name not age) guitar. I've been playing about with my HH combo, and found a resonably good metallic gibson(ish) sound, quite similar to the early Santana stuff, (the HH settings are +/- 4, where 0=flat). Side note: I always use everything on flat when i use my Sabre.

Input1
Volume=+4
Bass=+2
Middle=+1.5
Treble=+1
Presence=+1.5

I still had a very muddy 6th string, which starts at the 5th fret and progressily gets worse the higher up the neck i go (=24 fret), strangely enough, the tone is quite good from open 6th string to the 4th fret. By muddy sound i mean within a very short time after striking the string, it would go muffled, with no credible definition.

Now the odd bit (hehe), to clean up and make the bass tighter, i found by decreasing the 'High EQ' on my GT3 processor from 0dB to -4dB, it had the effect of greatly reducing the muddy sound on the 6th string it's probably me being stupid (as my wife likes to remind me), but it's as if the EQ band is on a pivot (if you will). By decreasing the high EQ band, it lifts the low EQ band and not (as i thought), just decreasing the treble.

Almost there :smokin: By changing my plectrum (See Note below), i could mellow out the high notes but still retain the smoother bass. These pickups do need a lot of work to get a reasonable tone out of them (thank the good lord i have the GT3), and i think by swapping out the 'Alpha' pots to high quality CTS pots, will yield a better performance.

Note:

My plectrums were custom made by a violin luthier about 15 years ago, they are Bone and Piano Ivory. They are approximately 3mm thick, dished on the fronts for my thumb, and carved on the back for my index finger. The overall shape is similar to 'Normal' plectrums, where the striking point (is that correct)? Is tapered. With my Sabre i usually use the Bone plectrum as it allows a good attack, and the Ivory ones for ballads and stuff.

Regards Barry