Replacing Gibson 490s with Duncans

[organictimbre]

I’ve got a gig coming up this Saturday and I am almost panicking. My guitar is a 2017 Gibson Les Paul Tribute T. I replaced the stock Gibson 490 pickups with Seymour Duncans; bridge with a 59/custom hybrid and the neck with a 59. Gibson uses the quick connects these days, so I ordered the same quick connect parts and soldered them to the Duncans. I used this color translator https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/humbucker-wire-color-translation to get the color swap correct.

The result is, with the volumes maxed out and the toggle set to the middle, things sound out of phase. When I decrease the volume on either the neck or bridge pickup, it sounds less out of phase, I guess because I’m decreasing the out of phase component in the signal. What I’m wondering is, how could this be possible, assuming I swapped all the colors correctly? Here is a video that shows what I mean. I am playing the same riff on the neck, middle, and bridge.

Here are pics of the stock Gibson setup and of the Seymour Duncans to show the color translation.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Replacing Gibson 490s with Duncans

Just switch the hot with the ground on one pickup.

 

[organictimbre]

Re: Replacing Gibson 490s with Duncans

Just switch the hot with the ground on one pickup.

Yeah I had the same thought, I might try that when I get home tonight. Just curious, lets say you are just looking at a single humbucker, does it matter if the hot and ground get flipped? I guess it doesn't does it? It's kind of like if you just had a single speaker, the polarity has no impact.

 

[allstarrme]

Re: Replacing Gibson 490s with Duncans

Your neck wiring looks right but the bridge colors are out of order. You might be able to swap the wires in the plug to get them the same.

I just put Duncan’s in my new LP Standard. The colors for the Gibson bridge look out of order as well. Gibson does funny stuff sometimes.

 

[organictimbre]

Re: Replacing Gibson 490s with Duncans

Your neck wiring looks right but the bridge colors are out of order. You might be able to swap the wires in the plug to get them the same.

I just put Duncan’s in my new LP Standard. The colors for the Gibson bridge look out of order as well. Gibson does funny stuff sometimes.

What are you using as references for what color belongs where?

 

[Davii]

Re: Replacing Gibson 490s with Duncans

I noticed non-standard Gibson colour arrangements in my 2016 Tribute, but I was pulling the lot out, not just the p'ups, and can't remember what was what by the time it all ended up on eBay. From what I can recall, it's not too difficult to trace the circuit board to figure out what to put on what wire, and think all these are modern wiring(?)

 

[allstarrme]

Re: Replacing Gibson 490s with Duncans

What are you using as references for what color belongs where?

I used the Seymour Duncan chart. Your colors are right for where you put them, the pins themselves appear to be out of order.

They may make the wiring different for different years. I used a set of these, look where the colors are for each. If those came prepinned they could have been wrong too.

 

[organictimbre]

Re: Replacing Gibson 490s with Duncans

I used the Seymour Duncan chart. Your colors are right for where you put them, the pins themselves appear to be out of order.

Yeah, by following the chart I'm pretty sure I did the translation to Seymour Duncans correctly. Apparently on the Gibsons, they use white as the hot lead on the bridge pickup and red as the hot lead on the neck pickup, so that's why the color may appear out of order to you. It still doesn't explain why translating the colors still leads to the middle being out of phase. Either way I guess the fix is not too complicated, I'll just flip the wiring on the bridge. Maybe the Seymour Duncans themselves are out of phase... I did get b-stock items.

 

[Securb]

Re: Replacing Gibson 490s with Duncans

I hope you learned to NEVER change up your gear this close to a gig.

 

[organictimbre]

Re: Replacing Gibson 490s with Duncans

I hope you learned to NEVER change up your gear this close to a gig.

Ha, sure enough. I was well aware of the danger, but let's just say circumstances were unfortunate and I was really sick of the 490s.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Replacing Gibson 490s with Duncans

Well, if you have simply followed the above diagram (or that is the precise wiring in your guitar) then I can see why the duncans are OOP.

 

[organictimbre]

Re: Replacing Gibson 490s with Duncans

Well, if you have simply followed the above diagram (or that is the precise wiring in your guitar) then I can see why the duncans are OOP.

Read the original post, I did a color swap based on the color translator.

Just to update, I got things working last night. Basically I said to hell with the weird Gibson bridge wiring and just wired the bridge the same as the neck. This means I wired things up in a traditional fashion without the weird "reverse" thing from the Gibson SG diagram above. Now things work and are in phase. It looks like this. The wire colors from left to right are clear, green, black, red, white. Hopefully someone else with the same issue can find this useful.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Replacing Gibson 490s with Duncans

I read your post, understood and translated


I also read the all diagram.......unlike you. If you'd read the reverse phase and normal from the outset and bothered to wonder what it meant it would have been obvious (as it was to me) why your pickups were OOP. That same amount of thought would also have told you this very aspect was what I was talking about.

 

[organictimbre]

Re: Replacing Gibson 490s with Duncans

I read your post, understood and translated


I also read the all diagram.......unlike you. If you'd read the reverse phase and normal from the outset and bothered to wonder what it meant it would have been obvious (as it was to me) why your pickups were OOP. That same amount of thought would also have told you this very aspect was what I was talking about.

Right, but why is it out of phase when the Seymour Duncans are in there but not the Gibson pickups?

 

[Davii]

Re: Replacing Gibson 490s with Duncans

Listening to the video, it sounds in phase to me, though maybe it's just volume.

Edit: I can never faffin' remember which way around is which, but have a niggling feeling it's opposite to what people term as in, or out of phase :crazy:

 

[donaldr]

Re: Replacing Gibson 490s with Duncans

Did you cut the adapter and solder wires with pickup wires, or did you put pickup wires in the quick connect?

 

[organictimbre]

Re: Replacing Gibson 490s with Duncans

Did you cut the adapter and solder wires with pickup wires, or did you put pickup wires in the quick connect?

Basically I put the same quick connect that Gibson uses onto the Seymour Duncan pickups. This involved ordering the terminal strips, female header (the things that make up the quick connect) and crimping&soldering the pickup wires to the quick connect.

 

[donaldr]

Re: Replacing Gibson 490s with Duncans

Do you need a special tool for crimping?
Where did you order all the parts?

 

[AlexR]

Re: Replacing Gibson 490s with Duncans

Right, but why is it out of phase when the Seymour Duncans are in there but not the Gibson pickups?

The gibson pickups have reversed magnets, and one is technically out of phase with the other........thats why on the diagram it states 'reverse phase' on the bridge pickup and 'normal' on the other. Then the order of the wires is completely switched around (you can see the different order of the wires on the molex connectors) so that you get hum cancelling with them both split (a 'virtual' humbucker) but then the full tone is not OOP.

Have you tried any of the coil cut operations since??

 

[organictimbre]

Re: Replacing Gibson 490s with Duncans

Do you need a special tool for crimping?
Where did you order all the parts?

I did not have a special tool for crimping, I just used the tips of my wire cutters (which I have for cutting guitar strings) to tighten the terminal strip around the wire, and then I delicately soldered the wire in place. It should only be a touch of solder. I am somewhat skilled with fine soldering work due to my work. Terminal strips and headers are a pain when you don't have the exact tools, but the ability to plug and unplug stuff makes it worth it.

I ordered the stuff from digikey, but you can also get them from mouser. The part numbers you need are:
0510210500
0500798000
Copy/paste those into the search bar on mouser or digikey and it'll pull up the parts. I also ordered a fine point tweezer from digikey, it makes plugging the terminal strip into the female header easier cause everything is so small.