Replacing pickup backing plate

[dpaterson]

Re: Replacing pickup backing plate

I love you guys!!! LOL!!!

Much appreciating the suggestions. Suppose I will install later or tomorrow and see (just want to record some little more stuff from my amps. with the DM SD still installed for comparison). But not feeling great about this. Had an almighty fight with the courier company because this darn Invader disappeared and then reappeared so had to drive very far, twice, to get it. And after all that I have to watch the angle of the guitar to make sure it doesn’t fall apart!!! LOL!!! Do ya think Vivian had to glue his pole pieces in place??? LOL!!!

I have already started a thread in the “Trading” forum!!! LOL!!!

WWVD???

 

[dave74]

Re: Replacing pickup backing plate

FORD = Found On Road Dead

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Replacing pickup backing plate

Just saw another thread about pickup covers. Maybe there should be an “Invader Deluxe Set” which comprises an Invader plus cover (retainer for the pole pieces). Could be a transparent cover (so as to retain the visual appeal).

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: Replacing pickup backing plate

Vivian said that will just make the magnet further away.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Replacing pickup backing plate

Vivian said that will just make the magnet further away.

LOL!!! Might explain the elusive live tone I’ve been after!!!

Come to think of it: mebbe that’s why that white Charvel started out with Invaders and ended up with Super Distortions i.e. it ran out of pole pieces (ran out of gas??? Get it??? LOL!!!).

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: Replacing pickup backing plate

Hahaaha! Yea idk buddy, hard to say...
On a side note, I was watching Dio Live In Holland (84 I think), and noticed Vivian's black Charvel had Invaders in both the bridge and neck which was rather neat.

 

[dave74]

Re: Replacing pickup backing plate

Hahaaha! Yea idk buddy, hard to say...
On a side note, I was watching Dio Live In Holland (84 I think), and noticed Vivian's black Charvel had Invaders in both the bridge and neck which was rather neat.

There is an invader neck model,,,,,,but back then I'm not so sure.

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: Replacing pickup backing plate

I was actually mistaken about the black Charvel (maple fretboard), its a single humbucker... Holland 1983 features his black LP and it has Invaders in both positions.

Dang, I cant find the video now... Im just finding videos of a black les paul with a zebra bridge (cant tell what it is) and what appears to be a Schaller neck pup with wide chrome blades... I'll keep looking... I don't think I was THAT drunk cause I remember pausing it.

Ok, I remember now, I know he used X2N's, so that's possibly what I thought he had were dual X2N's...

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Replacing pickup backing plate

You are partially right. White Charvel with Maple fretboard is in the 1984 Special From The Spectrum BUT that has a DM SD in it so far as I can tell. Have only seen still pics. of that guitar with Invaders and cannot verify the pics.

But lemme see if I got this right:

“WWVD”???

“What would Vivian do”???

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: Replacing pickup backing plate

Idk, what would he do?
Haha yea you got it!

ps, sorry for the confusion about the Invader neck.. I gave up looking and conceded to the fact that I had beer goggles on.

Dave, youre correct they didn't have a specific Invader neck model back then, and I don't think they offered an X2N with chrome blades, so it must have been a Schaller...

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Replacing pickup backing plate

I think that is the first time in fifty three years that I have ever gotten something like that right!!! Must be a sign!!! LOL!!!

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Replacing pickup backing plate

FORD = Found On Road Dead

Fix Or Repair Daily

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: Replacing pickup backing plate

If the screws don't fit or are stripped out you can just go to ACE hardware and they have screws that are similar in their parts bins. You can then use a tap/die set from Harbor Freight to rethread the holes for the new screws. Swapping baseplates is simple to do. I would get a nickle steel baseplate from Mojotone. You would need to measure the pole spacing though to get a baseplate which will match the original.

I wouldn't replace a nickle steel baseplate with a brass baseplate unless you're specifically looking to change the pickup's voicing. Yes the baseplate material does effect the sound of the pickup! Nickle steel has strong focused treble and hard bass response while brass has rolled off treble, thick midrange and rounded bass response. I have a Dimarzio Super Distortion with a nickle steel baseplate and it changed the tone slightly and I have a Entwistel HDN with a brass baseplate because the nickle steel was too bright and piercing. A lot of people say you can't do magnet swaps on Dimarzio's because the magnets are glued to the baseplates but that's BS! You just need to go around the perimeter of the magnet with a razor knife and slip the blade under the magnet and you can pry it off. Then you can use whatever magnet you want.

Reasons to replace a baseplate:

• Because the mounting ears are stripped
• Because the mounting ears are broken
• Because the mounting ears are long and the pickup cavity is shallow
• Because you want 3 or 4 screw ears to adjust the angle of the pickup
• Because you want to change the voice of the pickup
• Because you want to do a magnet swap on a pickup with a magnet glued to the baseplate

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Replacing pickup backing plate

Well isn't this just too dandy:

Nickle steel has strong focused treble and hard bass response

EXACTLY what I'm trying to get AWAY from!!!

while brass has rolled off treble, thick midrange and rounded bass response.

EXACTLY what I'm trying to GET!!!


Turning out to be a great day!!! LOL!!!

Anything else I should be aware of before going to the trouble of putting in a NICKLE STEEL BACKED Invader??? LOL!!!

Isn't it always the case!!! I looked so forward to this Invader. Same with my Blaze. But my Jacksons were sort of "by the way" purchases. And guess what???

Who is it that has a signature that says "New stuff sucks"??? LOL!!!

Anyway. Thanks very much for the information. Good stuff to know for future reference.

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: Replacing pickup backing plate

I think the other traits of the Invader (giant magnets & pole pieces) overwhelm the base plate, dpaterson. No one has ever referred to it as an excessively bright or tight. Try it as it is & see how it works for you.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Replacing pickup backing plate

You need to take measurements to see if you can swap. It might be possible if they were both designed and built using the same system of measurements.

That said, it's really a silly way to go about it, when all you need to do is buy a few black screws.

As far as effect on tone, I've seen at least one well conducted experiment that IMO proves that the baseplate's effect is outside the realm of human perception in any real-world playing or recording scenario.

 

[dave74]

Re: Replacing pickup backing plate

That said, it's really a silly way to go about it, when all you need to do is buy a few black screws.

^^^This is very true.




If you can't wait to receive an order (I realize things take longer where you are), then just use the chrome height adjustment screws.
It already has that little white SD logo, so it's already not all black, and those screws are so miniscule anyways.

Don't worry about the poles. Just softly screw them all the way in and forget about it.
You won't have to have pole adjustment with that guitar. If you did adjust poles it would be only a tiny bit of retraction under the middle strings (D and G).

Set the overall pickup height based on the outside strings and go from there,,,,, but again, any middle adjustments will be micro at most with that bridge radius.

The Invader is a real jem IMO, I wouldn't change anything if it were me.
Consider wiring volume-only with a 500k pot. I'd use a 1meg if it were a darker maple-free guitar, but with your's a single 500k is perfect.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Replacing pickup backing plate

Hello everyone.

Thanks, as always, for the input and advice.

Nah. Not going to change anything. I don't need to adjust pole pieces. Only reason I was checking them was to make sure there wasn't any damage because the box was cracked in two places. Otherwise I'd not even have thought to check if they were tight or not. BUT I have to reiterate that I believe SD could do better than this.

The screw color also not an issue. The screw width bugs me though i.e. much thinner screws than the Jackson screws so it give them a lot of play. Only way around that is to either replace the pickup rings (and again here: Jackson has a raised pickup ring in the bridge position) or make bigger threaded holes in the base plate of the pickup. Not going to bother with either at this stage either i.e. the DM SD hasn't been a problem and it too has the much thinner screws.

Have already made the slightly larger holes for the CTS pots (that flipping tool, whatever it's called, from StewMac is a "machine" man i.e. cuts through woood like a hot butter knife so much so that if you don't know what you're doing you could very easily make a BIG mistake). The CTS pots. are both 500kΩ so good to go (ACTUALLY they measure around 470kΩ). This Jackson has a Poplar body by the way.

Anyways. STILL have not gotten down to recording some test stuff while the DM SD is in this guitar i.e. need to do that so I can compare tone after the Invader has been installed. So let me get to that now. Must say that in spite of all my complaining and joking around: kinda looking forward to hearing my long sought after and anticipated Invader!!! LOL!!!

Chat soonest.

Thanks again.

 

[dave74]

Re: Replacing pickup backing plate

Yeah those reamers do twist through wood like hot butter. Definitely a good idea to measure the pot-shaft/tool with calipers and then make a small mark or use a sliver of tape around the reamer at the width you need, just to prevent going over wide.

I have a round metal-file that is exactly the CTS width at it's widest. It's not made for wood but it works good by twisting and can't go over because it matches width perfectly. It does require a bit more work but still only takes a couple minutes. It was like 1/10th the price of that tool from Stew Mac,,,,,which I'd still like to have for sure.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Replacing pickup backing plate

Hello.

A REAMER. Yeh. That's it!!! LOL!!!

I was VERY careful I'll tell ya. Did one or two turns one side, then turned the guitar over, and did another one or two turns inside, and then kept checking until the pot. shaft slid snugly through. Didn't even push i.e. the tool has enough weight behind it to exert its own pressure. Other reason for doing it this way: because it's (the reamer) is tapered you could end up with a hole that's wider in circumference on one side than on the other. Yeh. Just me being pedantic is all.

With hindsight though: a bit of an overkill to say the least. I now think I could easily have achieved the same result with a round file (which I actually did buy before buying the reamer). I was just a bit worried about using a round file or a drill i.e. never made a hole on a guitar before!!! Could just picture the file taking some of the finish with it by catching it and then cracking the paint or the drill digging into the wood. Anyway. Lessons always being learned.

Must say that the quality of these CTS pots. sticks sh*t into the Alpha pots. that I had (also new). I know many will disagree here but I've had to toss at least two of the Alpha pots. during this experimentation.

Anyway. Invader going in TODAY even if it's the LAST thing I do on this planet (never got to do it yesterday).