HALENisking
New member
Yep. Tubes finally started dying... and I just have no idea how to go about choosing what to buy. I see some kits online, but don't know how they'll really affect the tone or if the price is fair. Help! lol.
Replacing the tubes in my Fender Supersonic. Complete noob here.
- Thread starter HALENisking
- Start date
Jason_The_Angry
New member
Re: Replacing the tubes in my Fender Supersonic. Complete noob here.
If you liked the tone as it was, buy the exact same replacement tubes.
If you want something very similar, buy the same type of tubes, but consider a different brand that may be of superior quality
If you want something to address a weakness in the amp (too much gain, not enough, not articulate enough, too articulate, etc), then that's another set of questions to answer.
There are a lot of options, I have purchased from here:
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/
and Amazon
shop around the interwebs for best prices. good luck
If you liked the tone as it was, buy the exact same replacement tubes.
If you want something very similar, buy the same type of tubes, but consider a different brand that may be of superior quality
If you want something to address a weakness in the amp (too much gain, not enough, not articulate enough, too articulate, etc), then that's another set of questions to answer.
There are a lot of options, I have purchased from here:
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/
and Amazon
shop around the interwebs for best prices. good luck
HALENisking
New member
Re: Replacing the tubes in my Fender Supersonic. Complete noob here.
The stock groovetubes get a lot of flack online, so maybe I could do better than buying another set of those.
Would love to hear some recommendations, since I lack the background knowledge.
The stock groovetubes get a lot of flack online, so maybe I could do better than buying another set of those.
Would love to hear some recommendations, since I lack the background knowledge.
Jason_The_Angry
New member
Re: Replacing the tubes in my Fender Supersonic. Complete noob here.
JJ's, TAD, some Russian, some Chinese. There are massive threads on many sites regarding the pros and cons of various tubes, their vintage, and their place of origin. There's a lot of snake oil too. I replaced groove tubes with JJ's and TAD. My opinion, consider the power tubes and the first preamp tubes. Those can make some interesting changes in terms of overall amp tone and gain structure.
Any minute here, the Captains will chime in.....
JJ's, TAD, some Russian, some Chinese. There are massive threads on many sites regarding the pros and cons of various tubes, their vintage, and their place of origin. There's a lot of snake oil too. I replaced groove tubes with JJ's and TAD. My opinion, consider the power tubes and the first preamp tubes. Those can make some interesting changes in terms of overall amp tone and gain structure.
Any minute here, the Captains will chime in.....
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Boogie Bill
New member
Re: Replacing the tubes in my Fender Supersonic. Complete noob here.
I've used thetubestore.com several times with good results. I have amps with Mesa, GT, JJ, EH, TAD, and Tung-Sol tubes, and some with combinations of several of these.
I will add that my favorite 6L6 and EL-34 tubes are the S.E.D./Winged C Russian tubes. Getting very expensive and hard to find.
If you replace your power tubes with other than factory-branded tubes, you may need to re-bias your amp.
Bill
I've used thetubestore.com several times with good results. I have amps with Mesa, GT, JJ, EH, TAD, and Tung-Sol tubes, and some with combinations of several of these.
I will add that my favorite 6L6 and EL-34 tubes are the S.E.D./Winged C Russian tubes. Getting very expensive and hard to find.
If you replace your power tubes with other than factory-branded tubes, you may need to re-bias your amp.
Bill
HALENisking
New member
Re: Replacing the tubes in my Fender Supersonic. Complete noob here.
Well so I did some heavy research on the different tonal qualities of power tubes... I have to say that EL34s seem like they would be killer in my amp, compared to the 6L6s.
Here's a comparison:
https://youtu.be/UzOK_2fE-tg?t=1m50s -6L6
https://youtu.be/UzOK_2fE-tg?t=2m54s -EL34
I really really like how the EL34s sound "chewier" with gain and "stretchier" clean, maybe slightly more balanced and warm. But of course it's not as simple as that, with some people on the forums claiming it would be dangerous to swap EL34s into a 6L6 amp. Could I swing it? Or is there a comparable tube that will swap with no modifications guaranteed? I read somewhere the the 5881 might be similar.
Well so I did some heavy research on the different tonal qualities of power tubes... I have to say that EL34s seem like they would be killer in my amp, compared to the 6L6s.
Here's a comparison:
https://youtu.be/UzOK_2fE-tg?t=1m50s -6L6
https://youtu.be/UzOK_2fE-tg?t=2m54s -EL34
I really really like how the EL34s sound "chewier" with gain and "stretchier" clean, maybe slightly more balanced and warm. But of course it's not as simple as that, with some people on the forums claiming it would be dangerous to swap EL34s into a 6L6 amp. Could I swing it? Or is there a comparable tube that will swap with no modifications guaranteed? I read somewhere the the 5881 might be similar.
guitfiddle
firstlessonologist
Re: Replacing the tubes in my Fender Supersonic. Complete noob here.
You'd have to have a tech go in and change out a few parts and set up the bias to take EL34s, but it could be done.
That said, the circuits in that amp truly favor 6L6 tubes. You'll just as likely get results that are as good or better by rolling some preamp tubes, which have a bigger impact overall, especially in a 60 watt amp that you probably don't get to turn up into power tube overdrive...unless you get to play super loud all the time.
You'd have to have a tech go in and change out a few parts and set up the bias to take EL34s, but it could be done.
That said, the circuits in that amp truly favor 6L6 tubes. You'll just as likely get results that are as good or better by rolling some preamp tubes, which have a bigger impact overall, especially in a 60 watt amp that you probably don't get to turn up into power tube overdrive...unless you get to play super loud all the time.
HALENisking
New member
Re: Replacing the tubes in my Fender Supersonic. Complete noob here.
So does a compromise between the 6L6 and EL34 exist? And what preamp tubes would be recommended? As always, I truly appreciate all of the help
I actually do like to push the clean channel into overdrive. Loud as all hell.
So does a compromise between the 6L6 and EL34 exist? And what preamp tubes would be recommended? As always, I truly appreciate all of the help
I actually do like to push the clean channel into overdrive. Loud as all hell.
Re: Replacing the tubes in my Fender Supersonic. Complete noob here.
Honestly...in your situation, I would only worry about tubes that have a decent history of longevity. Anything that TAD sells will be fine in your amp.
These are as good as any modern day L6 being made today. http://www.dougstubes.com/power-tubes/6l6-5881-kt66/tad-6l6wgc-str.html
I would not change tubes for tone. Speakers and Eq settings are going to get you Bigger/Better results than glass.
Are you also talking about pre tubes.?
Preamp Tubes from TAD and the several offered from Reflektor will do fine. They are pretty cheap.....but your amp has what.....7-8-9 pre tubes.?
Stick with one brand of AT7 and maybe buy a couple extra AX7 in a different stamp and see what you hear.
good luck
Honestly...in your situation, I would only worry about tubes that have a decent history of longevity. Anything that TAD sells will be fine in your amp.
These are as good as any modern day L6 being made today. http://www.dougstubes.com/power-tubes/6l6-5881-kt66/tad-6l6wgc-str.html
I would not change tubes for tone. Speakers and Eq settings are going to get you Bigger/Better results than glass.
Are you also talking about pre tubes.?
Preamp Tubes from TAD and the several offered from Reflektor will do fine. They are pretty cheap.....but your amp has what.....7-8-9 pre tubes.?
Stick with one brand of AT7 and maybe buy a couple extra AX7 in a different stamp and see what you hear.
good luck
F
Funkfingers
Guest
Re: Replacing the tubes in my Fender Supersonic. Complete noob here.
The only practical compromise of which I am aware is the MESA/Boogie Simul-Class output stage. Needless to say, this is expensive.
This modus operandi is characteristically Fender. If you like it, stick with it. 12AX7/ECC83 for pre-amp gain stages. 6L6GC for the output stage.
The only practical compromise of which I am aware is the MESA/Boogie Simul-Class output stage. Needless to say, this is expensive.
This modus operandi is characteristically Fender. If you like it, stick with it. 12AX7/ECC83 for pre-amp gain stages. 6L6GC for the output stage.
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Edgecrusher
New member
Re: Replacing the tubes in my Fender Supersonic. Complete noob here.
Simul class is what they call it in the mark series... Progressive linkage is what they call it in the Blue Angels.
But i dont think hes asking about using 2 tube types at once anyways...hes asking about a tube with a tone half way between the 2.
Simul class is what they call it in the mark series... Progressive linkage is what they call it in the Blue Angels.
But i dont think hes asking about using 2 tube types at once anyways...hes asking about a tube with a tone half way between the 2.
F
Funkfingers
Guest
Re: Replacing the tubes in my Fender Supersonic. Complete noob here.
You're right. Simul-Sync was Tascam jargon.
You're right. Simul-Sync was Tascam jargon.
HALENisking
New member
Re: Replacing the tubes in my Fender Supersonic. Complete noob here.
I only use my amp's gain, which I love. It's a fair amount too, but doesn't get to super saturated levels. I was asking if there is a middleground power tube between EL34s and 6L6s. The 6L6s' openness make for huge chords, but unforgiving lead work. I could use the compression that some other tubes offer. I've heard KT77s work for this. But will they drop into my amp okay? Hmmm.
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I only use my amp's gain, which I love. It's a fair amount too, but doesn't get to super saturated levels. I was asking if there is a middleground power tube between EL34s and 6L6s. The 6L6s' openness make for huge chords, but unforgiving lead work. I could use the compression that some other tubes offer. I've heard KT77s work for this. But will they drop into my amp okay? Hmmm.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
HALENisking
New member
Replacing the tubes in my Fender Supersonic. Complete noob here.
Right on man, thanks for the input. But the biggest change of tone I heard with power tubes was level of compression, and I would like more compression in my amp very much. Something I can't quite boost with speakers and eq, and I don't want a compression pedal.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Right on man, thanks for the input. But the biggest change of tone I heard with power tubes was level of compression, and I would like more compression in my amp very much. Something I can't quite boost with speakers and eq, and I don't want a compression pedal.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Edgecrusher
New member
Re: Replacing the tubes in my Fender Supersonic. Complete noob here.
No not simply they wont. They are even worse to try to use than EL34's. Most KT77's wont even fit in your head they are too tall. KT66's are too wide they wont fit in the sockets without rubbing. The only tube which might be a good idea for you is the 5881 which is actually an older lower power tube that you can get to overdrive easier but something you need to realize is that the circuit has way way way more influence over the sound of the amp than the tube type. Depending on the circuit an EL34 might even compress less than a 6L6 does. You can change tube types sometimes to influence the sound of the amp a bit but at the end of the day the circuit is what really gives the amp its character.
You are much better off buying a handful of different 12ax7's and tube rolling the preamp.
No not simply they wont. They are even worse to try to use than EL34's. Most KT77's wont even fit in your head they are too tall. KT66's are too wide they wont fit in the sockets without rubbing. The only tube which might be a good idea for you is the 5881 which is actually an older lower power tube that you can get to overdrive easier but something you need to realize is that the circuit has way way way more influence over the sound of the amp than the tube type. Depending on the circuit an EL34 might even compress less than a 6L6 does. You can change tube types sometimes to influence the sound of the amp a bit but at the end of the day the circuit is what really gives the amp its character.
You are much better off buying a handful of different 12ax7's and tube rolling the preamp.
Edgecrusher
New member
Re: Replacing the tubes in my Fender Supersonic. Complete noob here.
Tubes dont really compress. Gotta think whats actually happening in an amp. The compression is actually coming from the amp not being able to supply enough current to the tubes to keep the tubes operating linearly. It is actually possible to build an amp with the power section so beefy that it doesnt distort no matter how loud you turn it up. A lot of the sound you hear when your cranking the amp is the transformers trying to keep up and the signal compresses because it doesnt have the extra juice to give you anymore volume.
Tubes dont really compress. Gotta think whats actually happening in an amp. The compression is actually coming from the amp not being able to supply enough current to the tubes to keep the tubes operating linearly. It is actually possible to build an amp with the power section so beefy that it doesnt distort no matter how loud you turn it up. A lot of the sound you hear when your cranking the amp is the transformers trying to keep up and the signal compresses because it doesnt have the extra juice to give you anymore volume.
HALENisking
New member
Replacing the tubes in my Fender Supersonic. Complete noob here.
Duly noted Edgecrusher. Thank you for your time! Superb info. I think I need to talk one on one with a tech to really sort out what I want haha. Get some personalized recommendations. Quick question, what does "tube rolling" mean?
Maybe "compression" wasn't the right term. Damn the voodoo that is feeling a tone and hearing subtleties and then trying to put it into words XD
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Duly noted Edgecrusher. Thank you for your time! Superb info. I think I need to talk one on one with a tech to really sort out what I want haha. Get some personalized recommendations. Quick question, what does "tube rolling" mean?
Maybe "compression" wasn't the right term. Damn the voodoo that is feeling a tone and hearing subtleties and then trying to put it into words XD
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Edgecrusher
New member
Re: Replacing the tubes in my Fender Supersonic. Complete noob here.
Oh tube rolling is just where you take a bunch of preamp tubes and try them in the different sockets in your amp. Some are gain stages and some are drivers so they have different effects. Even just swapping around the tubes you have in the amp now can make a difference. Mind you this only applies to the preamp tubes no reason to do this with the power tubes.
Modern tube production is VERY inconsistant. Many tubes will be giving only 40% or less of the gain they are designed to. This can be a good hint if you ever have a tube go microphonic on you and your at a gig without a spare... Take it out of the gain stage and stuff it into the reverb slot or something that doesnt care if the tube is microphonic... it just might save your bacon.
My personal preference is to use good NOS tubes for my gain stages then using the stronger modern tubes for the phase inverter or cathode inverter. Things like the reverb driver and effects loop arent hugely important so for those I just use a decent tube.
Oh tube rolling is just where you take a bunch of preamp tubes and try them in the different sockets in your amp. Some are gain stages and some are drivers so they have different effects. Even just swapping around the tubes you have in the amp now can make a difference. Mind you this only applies to the preamp tubes no reason to do this with the power tubes.
Modern tube production is VERY inconsistant. Many tubes will be giving only 40% or less of the gain they are designed to. This can be a good hint if you ever have a tube go microphonic on you and your at a gig without a spare... Take it out of the gain stage and stuff it into the reverb slot or something that doesnt care if the tube is microphonic... it just might save your bacon.
My personal preference is to use good NOS tubes for my gain stages then using the stronger modern tubes for the phase inverter or cathode inverter. Things like the reverb driver and effects loop arent hugely important so for those I just use a decent tube.
guitfiddle
firstlessonologist
Re: Replacing the tubes in my Fender Supersonic. Complete noob here.
One thing you could try is finding a pair of Mullard EL37 power tubes. They drop right into a 6L6 circuit with no mods. One of the engineers at Mullard once said they only need "a whiff of signal to drive them to full output power" so it stands to reason that you might get them to distort at lower volumes than a 6L6 needs.
Even then, your preamp tubes will still have a bigger effect on the tone of the amp as far as tubes are concerned.
One thing you could try is finding a pair of Mullard EL37 power tubes. They drop right into a 6L6 circuit with no mods. One of the engineers at Mullard once said they only need "a whiff of signal to drive them to full output power" so it stands to reason that you might get them to distort at lower volumes than a 6L6 needs.
Even then, your preamp tubes will still have a bigger effect on the tone of the amp as far as tubes are concerned.
Edgecrusher
New member
Re: Replacing the tubes in my Fender Supersonic. Complete noob here.
It will also cost him 600 bucks for a NOS set too IF he can find them. Used they sell for about 400 a set.
BTW the quote is a bit out of context. He was meaning that in like a radio situation you didnt need a ton of input from the driver tubes to make them work. This was important in some designs as it allowed them to use less driver tubes. Less tubes equals less parts i.e. lower cost simpler design.
It will also cost him 600 bucks for a NOS set too IF he can find them. Used they sell for about 400 a set.
BTW the quote is a bit out of context. He was meaning that in like a radio situation you didnt need a ton of input from the driver tubes to make them work. This was important in some designs as it allowed them to use less driver tubes. Less tubes equals less parts i.e. lower cost simpler design.
